Marc Wielage Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Alex Maragos on the Red User Group just brought up this fascinating BBC documentary on how cameras and sound gear were made smaller and more lightweight for fast-paced filmmaking in the early 1960s. I immediately said, "oh, they used Auricons back then," but the real story is a lot more complicated than I had thought. Here's the show (pending on how long it stays up on Vimeo): Watch the whole thing -- it's really something. Right around 32 minutes in, during a long segment on a John Kennedy documentary called Primary, they start talking about the myriad of issues with sound recorders and audio sync, which I found both sad and hilarious. Some things never change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Ya, it's a pretty cool doc... I chased down the producer a couple years ago and she was hoping to have the film more widely available for viewing... Doesn't look like the Vimeo posting is her doing. Oh well. Ten years ago, there was a great exhibit at the UC Berkeley library on the history of documentary film. In addition to the shoes from Werner Herzog Eats His Shoe, they had the/a (?) Auricon used in Primary on loan from Robert Drew, and iirc there was plenty of info about how they modified the camera, what a hassle it was, and why that camera was such a big deal. I'm not much for iconography, but seeing that camera was pretty damn cool. A bit more info about that exhibit. http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/reellife/ Thanks Marc! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 I'm still going through the doco as time permits, and they just started talking about the Nagra and its impact on documentary filmmaking at roughly 46 minutes in. I had to chuckle at the nightmares caused by sync problems in those days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ve7kjr Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Great find Marc, thanks for posting. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Smith Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Pretty cool-am downloading it now to view later. Nice find Marc! --S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted June 6, 2013 Report Share Posted June 6, 2013 Awesome!!! Especially in 46 minute about sync. And now... we done the "simple" to more "complicated". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 7, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 There's a hilarious interview with one of the (now very old) guys who helped create the Eclair NPR, and he mentions how camera crews occasionally come by to talk to him these days about his work in the 1960s, and if they start setting up on a tripod, he's insulted and tells them to leave! His whole point was how documentary filmmaking completely changed once the camera operators had the freedom to shoot everything handheld, 100% of the time. I have to confess, the clips from the John F. Kennedy Primary documentary were compelling, especially the 90-second tracking shot of JFK walking through the crowd, shaking hands. And it was doubly impressive when you found out that most of the film was out of sync (!!!) and had to be manually varispeeded and synced by eye! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 There's a hilarious interview with one of the (now very old) guys who helped create the Eclair NPR, and he mentions how camera crews occasionally come by to talk to him these days about his work in the 1960s That really old guy is Jean Pierre Beauviala, the resident genius at Aaton. He was responsible for the Beala motor for the Eclair NPR, an early crystal sync motor for that camera. The camera was first introduced with the Ciblo motor, a Pilotone sync motor. I'm not sure if the Beala was the very first crystal motor or if that honor goes to Perfectone. The two motors were introduced very close, one upon the other. After working for Eclair, Beauviala made the Alcan motor, also for the NPR, and then formed Aaton as a rival camera company. After making a remarkably light and quiet 16mm camera, he brought out a 35mm camera and built editing equipment. He also designed an extraordinary system that used LEDs built into the camera gate to burn timecode numbers on the fly into the edge of 16mm film. The resulting numbers were readable by eye once the film was developed. Then he turned his attention to recorders and made the Cantar. He's still at it. I don't know if he still owns the company; there's been some recent controversy. But he's still involved. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmfreak Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 What a marvelous documentary ! Couldn't stop watching Thanks for sharing Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted June 7, 2013 Report Share Posted June 7, 2013 especially the 90-second tracking shot of JFK walking through the crowd - Without monitor. Just... masterpiece! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 8, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 He also designed an extraordinary system that used LEDs built into the camera gate to burn timecode numbers on the fly into the edge of 16mm film. The resulting numbers were readable by eye once the film was developed. And sometimes, the Aaton timecode even worked! Very problematic system, in my experience. I was always sad that Arriflex and Panavision weren't able to license the Aaton timecode system for their film cameras, because it would've made life much easier in the last 15 years. Sadly, it never happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Wang Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 it's great to know the history,thanks for sharing Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth Posted June 8, 2013 Report Share Posted June 8, 2013 This is great thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted June 12, 2013 Report Share Posted June 12, 2013 Primary is one of my favorites. But Albert Maysles shots in Gimmie Shelter are amazing. He could really read a room. To be working one of those clunky 16mm cameras with all of its short comings and still be able to pay attention to everything going on is really amazing. Proof that the best documentary cameramen listen really well. A lot of folks who watch those old docs by the Maysles or Weisman are always amazed when they learn that there was only one camera. I get a bit upset when producers throw multitple cameras into the hands of amateurs and get worse results that just one great camera person. Great find Marc. Crystal Sync!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2013 Oh, I dreamed of having crystal sync in film schools back in the 1970s. God help you when the 60Hz cable broke (which happened to me on one problematic shoot). There are aspects of the old days I do not miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Smith Posted June 14, 2013 Report Share Posted June 14, 2013 The one plus side to the sync cable was at least you knew when the camera was rolling! --S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted June 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted June 15, 2013 The one plus side to the sync cable was at you knew when camera was rolling! I remember: the Nagra III indicator would turn white! Doh, it's been a long time since I worked with the III... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mastermixaudiomedia Posted June 19, 2013 Report Share Posted June 19, 2013 Fantastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todio Posted June 29, 2013 Report Share Posted June 29, 2013 Two comments: The first DOC I ever worked on in 1986 was shot on an Eclair NPR and I recorded sound with a Nagra III so this DOC really brought back some VERY fond memories. Funny though, I thought even then it was a noisy camera and requested the shooter use a barney during all sit-down interviews (there were a couple) He was happy to comply. I only had 1 mic at the time a Sennheiser 416T so all the sound on that film was recorded with that one mic (it seems icredible to me now in the day of multitracking even on DOCs... Now to <rant> a bit... NO SOUND CREDIT on this DOC. Was this shot with the Camera Operator doing sound too? After about 20% of the film was focussed around the hassles of getting good sound for film? THIS is where 'modern' DOCs are going. Throw the sound man overboard. The camera guy can do it. When will these newer DOC filmmakers realize that pictures oftentimes exist to support the sound! Didn't they learn, seeing early failures getting a coherent film without sound, that sound is AT LEAST as important to the film as the picture? If it wasn't why go blind trying to sync it? Just let Kennedy's voice drift. It's not that important, right? I notice they had a "Dubbing Mixer" though. Guess there is always money to fix it in post but never enough to do it right the first time. I've recorded 3 feature films without 1 word of ADR. How much have I saved Production? Sheesh! </rant> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 1, 2013 Report Share Posted July 1, 2013 " NO SOUND CREDIT on this DOC. " as long as the checks cleared... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 " NO SOUND CREDIT on this DOC. " as long as the checks cleared... Really? It's only about the money for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 2, 2013 Report Share Posted July 2, 2013 " Really? " lets ask Crew (Old School) how concerned he is with seeing his name in the credits... Long time (decades!) ago, I did a lot of second unit on a pretty major ($$) movie. The LP (now a major EP) asked me to take the "weekly" rate for mixer ( under the IATSE contract, a weekly guarantees work by the 56 hour week, rather than the 9 hour day), and promised me a screen credit if I took the lower hourly rate; my name is not in the credits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 " Really? " lets ask Crew (Old School) how concerned he is with seeing his name in the credits... Long time (decades!) ago, I did a lot of second unit on a pretty major ($$) movie. The LP (now a major EP) asked me to take the "weekly" rate for mixer ( under the IATSE contract, a weekly guarantees work by the 56 hour week, rather than the 9 hour day), and promised me a screen credit if I took the lower hourly rate; my name is not in the credits! The point was not about seeing your name in the credits, it was if it's only about the money. Also, the post you were referring to was mentioning that many depts were listed, but not sound. At least no on-location sound. But other depts were listed. So it's quite different to Crew's situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 I see Todio's point: it is odd that the BBC would eliminate the sound mixer/boom operator part of the credits. I have definitely, positively seen them on past BBC documentaries. For all we know, maybe there was a reason why the person's name wasn't there (beyond carelessness). But the sound was generally very good throughout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimPitot Posted July 5, 2013 Report Share Posted July 5, 2013 Great find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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