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adamforgione

Advice for capturing audio in room filled with poker players

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I'm filming a reality show pilot (no budget) and I'm trying to prepare for audio. There will be a large round poker table with about 10 players. most of them are characters in the show. I'm trying to figure out the best way to capture audio evenly no matter who speaks. I have some equipment including : 

 

5 pocket field recorders with mice ranging from sunken cos11d, tram tr50, matchstick mic. 

2 wireless mic lapel systems shure UR5 and sony (??? i forgot)

4 shotgun mics including shure vp89m, vp89L, (2) vp89s's, senheisser me66, rode ntg3

4 track r44 field recorder

 

Do I have a shot at this? Not sure how should handle it

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Reality show pilots do have budgets. They just like to pretend like they don't. 

 

I would say you're under-gunned at this gig. You'll need to record all 10 iso tracks if it's "unscripted realtiy" unless you have an automixer or you're really bitchin mixing on the fly. Good luck if you decide to do it.  

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Lectro SM with cos-11 on everyone who speaks. Automix 788T or try to mix. ISO everyone. One overhead MKH40 or 8040 for table ambiance tracked independently. That would be how I would handle this reality show.

I'm sure there's a way to muddle through with the gear you own. Plant mics overhead. Wire people who talk the most, perhaps. Have everyone on a separate track. Somehow provide a mix, because they'll have a tough time syncing all the files from all your machines, and might just use the mix.

But if they have no budget, you and they are kind of screwed. It'll likely sound as it should, given they have no money to do it "right".

Smile and have fun.

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I'm filming a reality show pilot (no budget) and I'm trying to prepare for audio. There will be a large round poker table with about 10 players. most of them are characters in the show. I'm trying to figure out the best way to capture audio evenly no matter who speaks. I have some equipment including : 

 

5 pocket field recorders with mice ranging from sunken cos11d, tram tr50, matchstick mic. 

2 wireless mic lapel systems shure UR5 and sony ( ??? i forgot)

4 shotgun mics including shure vp89m, vp89L, (2) vp89s's, senheisser me66, rode ntg3

4 track r44 field recorder

 

Do I have a shot at this? Not sure how should handle it

 

Just bluff.

 

-emory

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I'm filming a reality show pilot (no budget) and I'm trying to prepare for audio. There will be a large round poker table with about 10 players. most of them are characters in the show. I'm trying to figure out the best way to capture audio evenly no matter who speaks. I have some equipment including : 

 

5 pocket field recorders with mice ranging from sunken cos11d, tram tr50, matchstick mic. 

2 wireless mic lapel systems shure UR5 and sony ( ??? i forgot)

4 shotgun mics including shure vp89m, vp89L, (2) vp89s's, senheisser me66, rode ntg3

4 track r44 field recorder

 

Do I have a shot at this? Not sure how should handle it

I've never tried to put a pocket field recorder on a mouse before.  So what's the plan? Have the mice run around to the people talking on the tables?  I LIKE IT!! Please take videos.

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Accept that you don't really have the kit or expertise for this job, and downgrade your expectations to what you can do with what you have got. Keep it simple, use your 4 track recorder and forget the rest. Figure out the best way of covering it with 4 mics. You have 2 wireless, then use 2 booms. or use 4 booms - with help. or on stands. It will be as good as possible with that kind of kit, they can't expect anything more. It won't be top notch, but you should still be able to hear what people say. just don't expect high fidelity. But you will learn a lot, and so will the cheapskate production company. It will be perfectly good for a pilot.

 

Or tell them they need to hire someone who can handle it properly, then learn from them.

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Hi, and welcome

" Do I have a shot at this? "

I doubt it.

from your equipment list and the rest of your (so far) fist and onlty posting here, U don't think you are a sound professional, and frankly, barely an amateur.  is this so called reality POS actually your project (aka the cheapskate production company. ??  is this, in fact, your first project ?? (well, you did not introduce yourself!)

this so-called project needs money, and it needs a pro, with professional grade equipment.  it also needs a clue, and so far it looks like you have no plan, either.

 

I do recommend Jay Rose's books at www.dplay.com

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Actually, I have a better idea - put your shotguns on the cameras, stand well clear and you will get just as good a result as with your hodge podge of gear and lack of experience. And it will be sync'd.

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Actually, I have a better idea - put your shotguns on the cameras, stand well clear and you will get just as good a result as with your hodge podge of gear and lack of experience. And it will be sync'd.

that's actually not a bad idea considering the circumstances

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Whoa, tough crowd!

 

I have walked away from jobs like this in the past where I've told them, "to do this correctly, you really have to mic up everybody who's speaking, since it's not going to be possible to boom unscripted actors in a multicamera situation. And to do that, you need a reasonable sound budget that can afford this much equipment." As my father wisely used to say, "no mon', no fun, no hamburger bun."  (He had many sage sayings.)

 

Mr. Sharman's advice is exactly what I'd recommend. 

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Yeah, I agree Marc. The right way is Michael & Robert's way if it were a proper gig. Is this in a real location or a stage like place? On a stage like set is not impossible to boom with a long mic up 6' or so and follow the conversation. Not knowing what is what makes it hard to advise Adam. Best of luck though.

CrewC

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+1 on mic'ing everyone, ISO'd, and mix to camera with 8060 two or more for fx and ambience (again ISO not in mix). So two 788s.....

That's how I would do it, pilot or not. We need to remember the old "if you record the pilot you don't get the show" when it goes into production. The pilot needs to match production values of the series, assuming the pilot goes to air

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It amazes me how the producers on many pilot projects will tell you that "it's got to look and sound great otherwise we won't get funded" yet refuse to actually invest in the equipment and expertise in order to make it happen. 

Kind of basic "have your cake and eat it" type stuff no?

With regards to the OP I would think it's as simple as knowing what your equipment (or the equipment you are prepared to provide) can handle, extrapolating options from that and explaining those options to production.  If they can't put up the money for the gear then they will have to change their approach to accommodate the under equipped sound department (again, their choice not to invest in their own product).

They can't cheap out on sound and expect infinite options in post. 

Regardless of my little rant, I wish you the best of luck!







 

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LOL

I've never tried to put a pocket field recorder on a mouse before.  So what's the plan? Have the mice run around to the people talking on the tables?  I LIKE IT!! Please take videos.



Reality show pilots do have budgets. They just like to pretend like they don't. 

 

I would say you're under-gunned at this gig. You'll need to record all 10 iso tracks if it's "unscripted realtiy" unless you have an automixer or you're really bitchin mixing on the fly. Good luck if you decide to do it.  

 

There really is no budget, I'm one of the principles, trust me theres no money haha

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Hi, and welcome
" Do I have a shot at this? "
I doubt it.
from your equipment list and the rest of your (so far) fist and onlty posting here, U don't think you are a sound professional, and frankly, barely an amateur. is this so called reality POS actually your project (aka the cheapskate production company. ?? is this, in fact, your first project ?? (well, you did not introduce yourself!)
this so-called project needs money, and it needs a pro, with professional grade equipment. it also needs a clue, and so far it looks like you have no plan, either.

I do recommend Jay Rose's books at www.dplay.com

Mike, I'm sorry you're so quick to judge my experience. Although I am not formally trained from school, my teacher has been experience for 25 years. I have extensive audio background, but first and foremost I am a filmmaker. I have no experience in mic'ing reality shows but if you want to write me off as a hack, it is what it is. All of my audio production is professional. I merely asked for advice in case someone had any creative ideas with limited gear for this project. I'm not sure if you are aware but you come a pretentious and patronizing. I'll take my advice from the other respectable professionals here with social skills, thank you for trying though.

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Thanks for everyones feedback. I've been able to borrow a few more wireless lava, so Ill be mic'ing everyone independently. Thanks for the overhead advice RPSharman, Ill do that as well.

 

For those of you who question my capabilities, I'm sorry to let you know this is not my first rodeo. Its cool, Im a big boy. For any that assume I'm just some hobbiest playing around with a gig I shouldn't be playing with, let me fill you in. I own a video production company called Pennylane Productions. I started out as a wedding filmmaker and still do weddings but I am phasing out into commercial work over the last few years. I have extensive background with audio and I teach workshops to my industry as well (I'm just not a sound man for reality shows). I do a lot more than audio as a filmmaker. I started out mixing front of house, live sound reinforcement for years back in the early 90's. Then I started mixing and producing rock albums when Protools first came out, I transitioned to filmmaking in early 2000's and applied my audio knowledge. Haven't looked back. Im endorsed by :

 

Roland - http://www.rolandsystemsgroup.com/assets/media/pdf/case_pennylane.pdf

Shure - Speaking for them at Traverse Film Festival this year on mic'ing for documentary interviews

Rode - Hired to make this commercial for RODE Smartlav

 

Here is some of my work (all audio is me in combo with directing/DP)

 

 

TV Commercial

School Promo

Wedding Film

Workshop on Audio

 

Now I may not be a soundman for Hollywood films but frankly thats not what I want. I'm a pretty blunt guy and I don't take sh%t from anyone. I'm a nice guy, I have a lot of knowledge about a lot of things filmmaking wise and I'm always happy to share. I think I will be an asset here. I belong to a lot of forums so I know the drill, there a good people and bad people. Now that you know a little about me everyone, its nice to meet you all.

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<p>Adam, that's all good. Pity for a guy in the communications industry that you didn't make yourself a lot clearer in the beginning. Of course you're going to come across as a chancer with that kind of first post, and thus get the reactions you got, what do you expect?. Asking seasoned professionals with a chippy, amateur-sounding post doesn't come across as 'professional'. I'm sure you'll cobble something together that will work, but that kind of blunt, bragging attitude doesn't really help you be a 'nice guy'. In my experience nice guys are modest, polite and respectful. Or did you mean NY guy?</p>

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Macrecorder,

 

Its all good. I have no time for games. I'm from NY and this is who I am. I have knowledge to share and I always have more to learn. I just don't have time to prove myself to people who jump down my throat with patronizing comments for a simple post. If it sounds chippy, amateur-sounding and bothers the group, just tell me to leave and I'll be gone. This is how I talk and I'm not going to change for a group. Professionals know that if you have nothing nice to say, you don't say it. That being said, I know most people in this group are cool, there a few loud ones here that do this to others and I get it, it happens in every forum.

 

So that I'm crystal clear here, I'm not a sound recordist for a living, its not what I chose to do. I am a filmmaker who has a background in audio. I am self taught. I don't have the best audio gear and I get that some pros will make fun of people for that alone. I live for the saying "a craftsman never blames his tools". Anyway thats me, nice to meet everyone. If I don't fit in, let me know now.

<p>Adam, that's all good. Pity for a guy in the communications industry that you didn't make yourself a lot clearer in the beginning. Of course you're going to come across as a chancer with that kind of first post, and thus get the reactions you got, what do you expect?. Asking seasoned professionals with a chippy, amateur-sounding post doesn't come across as 'professional'. I'm sure you'll cobble something together that will work, but that kind of blunt, bragging attitude doesn't really help you be a 'nice guy'. In my experience nice guys are modest, polite and respectful. Or did you mean NY guy?</p>

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Whoa, relax a bit will ya? I just pointed out you could expect a few sarcastic replies with that first post, but you also got plenty of useful advice. So don't be so quick to take umbrage. Nobody is asking you to go, no need to get on the high horse so quickly. If you hang around I have no doubt you will learn a lot. Actually if you want to contribute, i am sure that people would like to know how your shoot goes, and how you solved the problem with the kit at your disposal, and how it worked out in the edit. Always interested to hear of creative solutions to a complex problem. So chill, dude and let us know how you got on when it is done.

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All good Macrecorder. And I will let you know.The shoot is tonight. I fly out out of the country a few days later for 2 weeks so I dont think Ill be able to check the tracks in depth before I leave. Worse comes to worse I'll be able to catch back up with the tracks after July 18 hopefully. I'm very anxious to see how it comes out and I will share. 

 

I'm chill I promise, its just that once people call me amateur or start patronizing when its not called for, I usually bite back and thats how I roll.

 

Looking forward to learning and sharing.

 

 

Whoa, relax a bit will ya? I just pointed out you could expect a few sarcastic replies with that first post, but you also got plenty of useful advice. So don't be so quick to take umbrage. Nobody is asking you to go, no need to get on the high horse so quickly. If you hang around I have no doubt you will learn a lot. Actually if you want to contribute, i am sure that people would like to know how your shoot goes, and how you solved the problem with the kit at your disposal, and how it worked out in the edit. Always interested to hear of creative solutions to a complex problem. So chill, dude and let us know how you got on when it is done.

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Part of the reason I like the sound community so much on this forum is because discussions and arguments are handled with professionalism. Things may get heated, but at the end of the day, most of us enjoy each others company. I think it's attributed to good attitudes and the experience of working with other departments (as well as each other. Many members here have known each other for years).

 

I can't speak for other people, but threads like this are not something I'd like to be reading on a regular basis. I think you have the wrong attitude Adamforgione, and the way you worded the original post made it sound like you have no experience at all. It's not uncommon to find other threads with members who really don't know what they're doing, so you may have been bundled together with them. 

 

As far as fitting in goes, right now you do not. Your aggression and defensiveness are going to provoke a lot of members here. In my opinion, the best way to handle this is to sit back and read up on the thousands of threads that cover hundreds of topics. And when you still have questions, be more concise. 

 

I say all of this with the best intentions.

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