Who Needs Sleep? ... Everyone

[Jeff Wexler]

60 MINUTES broadcast a segment a few weeks ago that was the most thorough and compelling story regarding the necessity of SLEEP in all of our lives and the consequences of chronic sleep deprivation that is so prevalent in our world. I have posted the full segment, less advertising, on my website.

SEE IT HERE

Note:  I'm not crazy about my coding on my website for this video. I may take it down and optimize it better for streaming.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Chris Howland CAS]

Thanks for putting this up Jeff. I just wrapped a non-union feature where the turnarounds were 9 hours or so. After 3 days of that, most of us in the crew started to make a little noise that this was unacceptable to which production replied, "Well we are shooting for a 10 hour turn around for the crew but were coming in a little late." I ended up being the make shift shop steward and I told them that a 12 hour turnaround is what most of the crew is expecting. They were going off some kind of studio documentation that said PA's only get a 9 hour turnaround so they thought they were doing us a favor. Once we got that straightened out, they gave us the 12 hour turnaround but it took some doing.

I hope the importance of this issue stays fresh on everyone's mind and we can all look out for each other. I would also love to see some union protection for members working on lower budget projects much the same way SAG does with there low budget agreements. It's interesting to see production, on these lower budget shoots, running around and stressing about OT and turnaround times for the actors but they don't have that concern for the crew. If SAG can rep their actors on lower budget stuff then I hope IATSE would consider the same.

Chris Howland

Chris

[Jeff Wexler]

I hope the importance of this issue stays fresh on everyone's mind and we can all look out for each other. I would also love to see some union protection for members working on lower budget projects much the same way SAG does with there low budget agreements.

Chris Howland

Thanks for your post, Chris, and thanks for helping to do your part to keep this movement alive. As far as the Union goes, it has been an uphill battle with the I.A. on this issue of long hours, fatigue, sleep deprivation, health and safety. One of the problems is that the low and lower budget tier contracts that the I.A. has adopted (often without the consent of the general membership) usually modify many of the fundamental parts of the Basic Agreement. Hours worked before a break, hours worked before incurring overtime, and hours of turnaround are almost always contractually written to benefit the producer (over the same provisions in the Basic). So, this means that the crews that need this protection the most (crews that have to work on low budget union tightly scheduled projects) do not have the protection contractually. Each individual on the project is really at the mercy of the common decency and common sense of the producers running the show.

My father has relentlessly pursued this issue even beyond the making of his documentary, "Who Needs Sleep?". He has continuously over the years presented the case to the I.A. (through his membership in the International Camera "Guild") and to the DGA (Directors Guild), and the ASC (American Society of Cinematographers). As well, he is working with the National Sleep Foundation and other organizations, and working towards OSHA recognizing fatigue as the number one health and safety issue affecting people in the workplace.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[John Coffey]

The long hours are the reason I wanted to get out and quit mixing someday.  I have never understood the lack of agreement on this issue from the grips and electricians unions especially.  When I bitched about the ridiculous long hours on set with most grips and electricians, they usually get irate.  Their attitude is that if you don't want to work the long hours, find another line of work.  I finally did.

That attitude is outrageous and it's unfair to those who want to lead normal family lives.  I'm sick of studio workers being held hostage to that ignorance.  I say if they need more money, let them get a second job rather than make me work 60-70 hour weeks.  Even a 12 hour day is really not okay.  How many professions in the world work these hours year after year after year?

I did sound for 30 years and I know what it takes to do a 10 month series.  When we start a job, we simply give up any semblance of a real outside life until the blood money is paid off.  We must get mentally strong for the duration, or we would go nuts. 

Now that I've escaped the sets, I realize I sacrificed my life in exchange for the blood money.  Real workers work 8 hour days and have a life every single day after work..... that we never really knew.  When we were off work, we tried to play life catch up, but had trouble enjoying time off unless we knew our next job was secure.  It's hard to explain what real life daily consistency is to those who don't have it.  You think you know, but you don't.  I didn't until, finally every day of the year, every week, I could make plans and keep them.  The family time alone is something money can't buy.  The alternative is seeing your kids sleeping when you leave and sleeping when you come home and too exhausted to give enough of yourself on weekends after working till the early hours of Saturday morning....and we call that life?  For me now, the freedom is almost overwhelming and I appreciate it far more than the average worker in society who takes it for granted. 

[Jeff Wexler]

The long hours are the reason I wanted to get out and quit mixing someday.  I have never understood the lack of agreement on this issue from the grips and electricians unions especially.  When I bitched about the ridiculous long hours on set with most grips and electricians, they usually get irate.  Their attitude is that if you don't want to work the long hours, find another line of work.  I finally did.

The danger of fatigue brought on by chronic and excessive long hours and accompanying sleep deprivation is indisputable. Although not officially codified by OSHA (at least with respect to our industry) the impact to our health and safety in the workplace is no less than that which is posed by other hazards such as asbestos or the use of atmospheric smoke on set. If some grip, or electrician, even a sound person, were to declare that they WANT to work in a set where there is exposed asbestos or they are burning cookies or rubber tires or whatever, that person does not have the right to put him or herself in that situation. If the official sanctioning organizations, from OSHA to Labor Relations, to the I.A. itself were to officially acknowledge this clear and ever present danger, it would be that crew member who misses the long hours would have to look for another job.

The Union should not be allowed to allow ANY individual or any employer to put us in the situation of chronic jeopardy. In many of the meetings that my father had with I.A. leadership over this issue, he was told that the I.A. cannot do anything to shorten the hours because that would not be the "will of the membership" (i.e., those crew members who say they want and need the long hours). Since when should the "will of the membership" override the responsibility of the labor union to insure the employer provides a safe and healthy work environment?

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Guest afewmoreyears]

Pretty simple,

  People don't care about people,  they care about money.....

[Philip Perkins]

There is the machismo issue: "are you tough enough to work with the big boys".  There is the competitive issue:  "I'll work harder than he does so I'll get the next gig."  There is the suck-up issue "I won't bitch and the producers will think I'm a team player."  There is the "strapped-in" issue:  "my house, my family, my kids education, my wife's operation etc etc is TOTALLY riding my back so I have to do what I have to do".  There is the laziness issue:  "I don't want to rock the boat, I don't do politics, shut up and do your job, be glad you have one".  Many of us got sucked into this biz when we were young, energetic, ambitious and unattached.  The difficulty of it appealed to us. We find later, as John Coffey eloquently pointed out, that it is not kind to older people with more complex lives.  Will it continue to get worse until all production is off-shored to Mumbai?  It seems like these issues have been around as long as I've been working (33 yrs).  What can be done to change things?  More unionization, with leadership that actually leads?  A different union to compete for the workers and contracts (like SEIU vs. Teamsters etc)?  I'm hoping that the ultimate solution for me isn't to stop working, at least not yet.  I am more picky about what jobs I'll take than I was when I was younger, and I've had to accept the reduction in lifestyle and new-gear buying that comes along with that attitude.  So...no boat, state colleges for the kids, old cars, old sound gear.....but still working! 

Philip Perkins

[wbrisett]

People don't care about people,  they care about money.....

There is a lot of truth in that. This past weekend, I gave an on-location audio class here in Austin. One of the issues I touched on was money. I did this because I haven't ever talked about the money aspect of the audio industry and because there were several local producers and directors there who wanted a better overview of audio. They all agreed that while they really wanted top notch audio, it usually wasn't in the budget. So, this simply reinforced in my mind how it's really more about money than product.

Wayne

[Ron Scelza]

So true Chris -- In the absence of a severe penalizing contract and the enforcement of it, the employer will and can do most anything they choose...

Conditions erode every time an individual film worker keeps their mouth shut, settles for less, or turns a blind eye: There is always a mute to do your job cheaper faster better... The fat lady sings, the fan club cheers and we go happily off to work -- again… 

The more things seem to change the more they stay the same...

I came into IATSE in 1970 having helped organize a local affiliate TV station.  I started working there in 1967 making $78.00 a week and was immediately fired when the vote favored the union... 

As an IA union worker these fast "38" years I came to expect certain contractual enforced conditions that are basic to human respect by an employer--and have difficulty dealing with less..

Today just trying to think of one employer of film workers with enough clout or FU money to enforce a respect for the individual worker without a contract is mind boggling.  Mass acceptance of this spiraling down to the lowest intellectual form of entertainment that reaps a profit is your reality along with its conditions, unless you have the balls to change it..

.

Enjoy it all

Sincerely

Ron Scelza

[Darren]

The funny thing is....

The more that we lower the costs of meal penalties, night premiums, turnaround, etc, the more often production forces us into those conditions.  As a result of them using them more, their penalty costs go up, and they complain that its costing them too much and that the premiums should be further lowered.

I've always felt that meal penalty and turnaround should be about $1,000,000 per hour.  Then production would NEVER use them, and we'd actually be saving them money!

One man's opinion....

-Darren

[Eric Toline]

There is a lot of truth in that. This past weekend, I gave an on-location audio class here in Austin. One of the issues I touched on was money. I did this because I haven't ever talked about the money aspect of the audio industry and because there were several local producers and directors there who wanted a better overview of audio. They all agreed that while they really wanted top notch audio, <<it usually wasn't in the budget.>>> So, this simply reinforced in my mind how it's really more about money than product.

Wayne

Nonsense to the "it wasn't in the budget". If they the producers included audio at the top of their list instead as an afterthought

it would be in the budget. Sadly they allocate their funds for all things visual first.

Eric

[Marc Wielage]

Just got a call from one of my best friends (a post guy involved in doing music clip shows), and he fell asleep at the wheel and had a wreck yesterday. Thank god, he didn't hit anybody and he wasn't badly hurt, just a little banged up. If he had been on the freeway instead of on surface streets, it would've been catastrophic.

Speaking as a post person (at the moment), I can tell you the situation is no better for us. If anything, our rights and turnaround time have gotten far worse in the last ten years. About the only glimmer that our management cares is, after I do a couple of 20-hour days in a row, my supervisor will say, "hey -- do you have somebody who can drive you home?" But that's about it. They still expect us back on the job at the same time the next day, rain or shine.

[Jeff Wexler]

Just got a call from one of my best friends (a post guy involved in doing music clip shows), and he fell asleep at the wheel and had a wreck yesterday. Thank god, he didn't hit anybody and he wasn't badly hurt, just a little banged up. If he had been on the freeway instead of on surface streets, it would've been far worse.

Speaking as a post person (at the moment), I can tell you the situation is no better for us.

I hate to hear this. There has always been the hope that somehow the forces, trends and conditions that have produced this chronic problem in production, would not have affected post workers --- I think I always knew that it did since the deadlines and demands are the same (or worse) in post. I would say that the only thing which tips things towards being somewhat worse for production workers than post workers is the necessity for production people to travel all over town, often a different place every other day, and this increases the likelihood of an accident. With traffic the way it has gotten in L.A. now, we have to allow more and more time to get to the location in the morning on time. The worst thing, and this is endemic in episodic TV work, is the "lost weekend." Friday's shoot coming at the end of most probably 4 days of long hours, usually goes well into the night and often into Saturday morning. Productions have gotten pretty good at offering hotels but unfortunately, Friday is the day where a hotel stay is most needed but is seldom used --- people want to get home to their families to try and have some kind of a weekend. Sleeping during the day on Saturday in a motel in Palmdale could save your life --- but what sort of life is it if you can't be with your family in Santa Monica on your day off.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Zharkai]

I know it's been awhile since the last post on this thread but hey...

I didn't see a post representing my POV. Mr. Perkins definitely hit the nail on the head when he said "Many of us got sucked into this biz when we were young, energetic, ambitious and unattached." I know exactly what he means as that is me now. As you all know, the freelance world is hard and as a great fast food chain once said "You gotta eat." When a job comes along with horrendous hours and crap for pay, sign me up. I need the contacts; I need the money; I need to get out of this fricken apartment！ By protesting, before or during the job, I do nothing: the producer folds his arms, twitches his nose, nods his head and a jump cut sits me back in front of my computer staring at and clicking the reload button on craigslist. I know if I don't take it lying down, there are countless other dudes in my same position or worse that will. Or even guys in better positions will take it. I just came in second for a "mixer w/equipment" job that paid $125/day to a guy with 20/yrs experience, more equipment, and a free boom op. A FREE BOOM OP!!! I can't compete with that. So what am I to do but accept what I can get at this level? I know that I'm probably screwing myself down the line, but I'd like to actually make it to "down the line."

-Czharcus

[move]钅中尚国[/move]

[Jeff Wexler]

I know it's been awhile since the last post on this thread but hey...

I didn't see a post representing my POV. Mr. Perkins definitely hit the nail on the head when he said "Many of us got sucked into this biz when we were young, energetic, ambitious and unattached." I know exactly what he means as that is me now.

-Czharcus

[move]钅中尚国[/move]

So, first of all, you discovered the "move" tag that causes those cryptic characters (is that a real language?) to travel across the screen right to left. I don't even know how you do this --- and it's MY forum!

We have all been there at the beginning, ready to do anything, work any hours, for free sometimes, but the real pisser is that for most of us we have moved on at some point. Once those of us who are fortunate to have had rather lengthy careers, we moved out of that world long ago. The real pisser is that the world we are in now, great projects, talented people, good storytelling, working under a union contract that sets scale rates and established working conditions, is becoming moreand more like the old world (when we were just kids and it didn't matter!).

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[Zharkai]

Yeah, I can understand your pain there. I'd hate to step into the next world and it's just like this one. Although, I may not mind too much if it meant I had some money left over after bills. Then again, if I never have any off time, what's the point of that? Perplexing...

[Cloud Wang]

yeah,everybody needs a good sleep,12hours turnaround time to me is already seems like a wonderful dream,as i know so far,in my country,china,all the TV series production work at least 15or16 hours/day and 2or3 month without one day break.

Like what i did last TV show,we were 55days shooting and everyday 16hours without one day break,sometimes we even shooting 24hours.....geez,and absolutely no time for home,all the crew live in a hotel together,that's really sounds crazy,isn't it?

the market in china is messed up already,ppl always think if u won't do it,they can just find someone cheaper to do it.And actually they always can find someone would like to do it in a lower price.Very bad competition.Film market is a little bit better than making TV show here,but still not very good except some very big budget movies.

Hope i can live long enough to see Chinese filmmaker let crew have a 12hours turnaround time.......

[old school]

Wow. Cloud I hope you live that long as well. I thought our hours were bad. Good luck and happy new year.

CrewC

[Cloud Wang]

thx old school,i'm still young,gonna be 24 in next March,i think i will see the day i expecting haha

best wishes to you,too

Cloud

[Marc Wielage]

Just watched the whole thing, and it was very powerful. I was particularly impressed with how objective Haskell was -- never confronting the interviewee with anger, always keeping things simple and direct, but right on topic.

I know of many, many video post employees and post mixers who have been involved in accidents or near-misses while going home after a lengthy shift (15-16 hours, often several days in a row). I've only fallen asleep at the wheel twice, but in both cases, I just slowed down and drifted to the right onto the shoulder of the road and woke up in 3 seconds. If I'd gone left into a Texaco tanker truck, I wouldn't be typing this message.

I did once have a spectacular wreck at 2AM, flipping off a cliff overlooking the Hollywood Freeway back in August of 1996, on the way home from a long post session. Ironically, I was fresh and alert, but just driving a little too fast. I survived, nobody hit me, though the car was totalled. But after seeing Haskell's documentary, I have to wonder: maybe the sleep deprivation of the weeks and months before that night added up, and even though I had had 8 hours of sleep, I wasn't as awake as I thought I was. Very sobering thought.

Haskell also asks the bigger question of "why do we put ourselves through this?" That's another major question that I've thought a lot about. Being dedicated to your job to the point of obsession only goes so far. I'm reminded of the Italian crew I had to work with at Technicolor/Rome a few years ago, and they often thought I was out of my mind because of the long hours and intensity that I approached my work. They were always very laid back, rarely worked more than 8 hours, and took frequent breaks. Maybe the Europeans have the right idea, and our "take no prisoners" approach is flawed.

BTW, everybody should support the "12 hours on/12 hours off" movement. The website is here:

http://www.12on12off.com/

--Marc W.

[soundtrane]

[quote author=Cloud Wang link=topic=2306.msg24474#msg24474 date=1

Like what i did last TV show,we were 55days shooting and everyday 16hours without one day break,sometimes we even shooting 24hours.....geez,and absolutely no time for home,all the crew live in a hotel together,that's really sounds crazy,isn't it?

Cloud, not really sounding crazy - the term "sweatshop" comes to mind. really invented by the chinese and neighbouring countries. of course, there's always someone to take advantage of people, anywhere and anytime.

we have to stand up and say no. sometime or the other.

-vin (who is always pushing for 12 hour days here in India, no matter what, at the risk of being tagged "high maintenance" or whatever else...)

[wolfvid]

wonder why this and the other IMPORTANT topics are not even touched on in the 695 newsletter?  wolf

PS.: it particularly revolting to see JO (on our dime) praise our enemy: the new contract negotiating partner. I am afraid his brain is going a little soft on us. 

[dfisk]

Jeff, I saw the movie on one of the movie channels recently. Really great stuff.

[tlarvenz]

Interesting/scary post - particularly as I sit working through an all-nighter for the second day.  I work both sides of the fence, location and post - often for the same project.  When I'm shooting a series, I often end up doing location during the day and post through the night due to the tight schedules.  BTW, is there a link to the 60 minutes clip somewhere?  The original link is down and I looked on Youtube and only found a 3 minute web teaser.  I'm fairly appalled to hear that after 6 days of four hours sleep a night they had developed a pre-diabetic condition.  I'd hate to think what 15 years of four hours (or significantly less) has done to me.

No use making money if the process kills you before you can enjoy it.

Tracey

Jeff, I saw the movie on one of the movie channels recently. Really great stuff.

[Arturo2George]

Every buddy wants to sleep because getting complete sleep more mind relax and feel happy.due to lack of rest may create pre-diabetic condition. thats why sleeping is very much necessary.