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Recording orchestras and choirs


Jeremy Katz

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Hello,

I am looking for a decent stereo pair of mics to record an orchestra and choir in a nice sounding hall. Has anyone tried the RØDE NT5's?

On a related note, what are everyone's thoughts and experiences on using a coincidental pair of cardioids versus a spaced pair of omni's for this purpose?

Thanks for any and all input!

P.S. I know "use my ears," "it depends..." But just looking for a starting point and some educated input. Thanks again!

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Your very lucky. Although like anything takes a ton of practice. If I wasn't doing film work this would be my dream job. Unfortunately you can't just do a stereo pair and call it a day. You need many mics. If you don't have that option maybe do a decca tree?

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Thanks Tim,

I am pretty excited for this one, should be fun. If I could, I'd do it properly but the budget won't allow it this time. It's really just a b-roll with nats situation. So I'm trying to get the best sound I can with basically 4 mics or less. I own a coupled large diaphragm condensers (NT1 and 2), a couple 58's, and I'm looking to add a stereo pair.

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The Rodes will be fine.    Schoeps or Neumann SDCs would be better, but not hugely better .  For simple fast and good I'd suggest an ORTF config-- you can do it with a single hang or one (tall) stand.  Use what time you have to find a sweet spot for them.  The right place will likely be closer in (front-back) and higher straight up than you might think.  6 feet back of the conductor and 18 ft up is a good place to start (if they let you).

 

phil p

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You certainly do not need "many mics" to record orchestra, choirs, ensembles, opera, or anything that is (primarily) acoustic.  This work has become my day job and it's mostly that I get, or at least my clients think so, stellar sound with a main pair.  That pair comes in many styles; spaced omnis, ORTF, MS and Blumlein figure of eights.  I occasionally use spot mics but extra mics more often come as omni flanker outboard of a main pair for very wide groups; large symphonies, wide choirs, etc.  Sometimes a featured soloist needs a spot but it mostly doesn't make it into the mix because the composer has written the piece with the aural space needed to hear the soloist without help.  To my ears, spot mics always seem pasted on and multi micing an acoustic ensemble is the devil's work; flat, one dimensional, sterile, air-less.  

 

Decca, EMI, RCA got along for years using carefully place main pairs (or if you were Decca, a trio of Neumann M50 mics) and made magical recordings.

 

FWIW, my go-to pair if I walk into a new hall with a new group is a Schoeps Mk4 ORTF pair; almost always works.  I use a Royer SF12 Blumlein on choirs, Schoeps Mk5 omnis with flankers for orchestras and a Schoeps MS pair for smaller ensembles like quartets.  But I have no rules and so much depends on the hall and the group.  Mk5 heads are so great for this because they switch from omni to cardioid and those two patterns will do as a main pair in a high percentage of situations.

 

If you have only the Rode pair, it will certainly work.  Use your ears to find a nice spot for them and record a very nice stereo track.

 

BTW, Phil's placement measurements are a great place to start.  He knows of what he speaks :)

 

D.

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an orchestra and choir in a nice sounding hall. 

 

 

Well, you've got that going for you.

 

I would keep it simple, and I'm sure the Rode's in an XY config will do well. Above and behind the conductor if possible, as has been said, and I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised by how well it sounds!

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You certainly do not need "many mics" to record orchestra, choirs, ensembles, opera, or anything that is (primarily) acoustic. This work has become my day job and it's mostly that I get, or at least my clients think so, stellar sound with a main pair. That pair comes in many styles; spaced omnis, ORTF, MS and Blumlein figure of eights. I occasionally use spot mics but extra mics more often come as omni flanker outboard of a main pair for very wide groups; large symphonies, wide choirs, etc. Sometimes a featured soloist needs a spot but it mostly doesn't make it into the mix because the composer has written the piece with the aural space needed to hear the soloist without help. To my ears, spot mics always seem pasted on and multi micing an acoustic ensemble is the devil's work; flat, one dimensional, sterile, air-less.

Decca, EMI, RCA got along for years using carefully place main pairs (or if you were Decca, a trio of Neumann M50 mics) and made magical recordings.

FWIW, my go-to pair if I walk into a new hall with a new group is a Schoeps Mk4 ORTF pair; almost always works. I use a Royer SF12 Blumlein on choirs, Schoeps Mk5 omnis with flankers for orchestras and a Schoeps MS pair for smaller ensembles like quartets. But I have no rules and so much depends on the hall and the group. Mk5 heads are so great for this because they switch from omni to cardioid and those two patterns will do as a main pair in a high percentage of situations.

If you have only the Rode pair, it will certainly work. Use your ears to find a nice spot for them and record a very nice stereo track.

BTW, Phil's placement measurements are a great place to start. He knows of what he speaks :)

D.

This guy knows what he's talking about. A well placed stereo pair will always sound better when recording these kind of performances that a bunch of spot mics.

I highly recommend Schoeps or DPA. Personally I like and ORTF configuration as well.

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I totally second the ORTF suggestion. It's somewhat easier to set-up than a lot of the other options and I personally prefer the sound over an XY arrangement. It's not neccessarily mono compatible, though. Also I've found that ORTF can be tricky to arrange on some stereo bars, so make sure you have all the parts for this. The NT-5s will be fine. Of course, Schoeps or Neumann may sound nicer, but the Rodes are perfectly good mics. Proper placement is probably way more important. Once you have taken the time to carefully set up your main rig, why not use the other pair on something else? Maybe an AB pair on the choir, maybe a spaced A/B on the entire group, maybe a spot mic on a quiet woodwind (if there are any). Mixing additional mics with the main pair can be very difficult, though, so only do it if there is time to spare

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Last one I did was above/behind the conductor (well, behind a piano as well in my case). On the recommendation of a veteren classical recordist, I used a pair of Schoeps MK21 wide-cardioid capsules in an AB spaced pair config (3m high) going straight into a 744t.

 

This video has the results (no EQ/Compression)

 

http://vimeo.com/29926788

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Wow thank you everyone for the great info! I think I've settled on going with the NT5's using the ORTF technique. Now all I have to does get my hands on a tall enough stand and a proper mount in time for the gig. Thanks again everyone for your help. I'll report back after the gig is over.

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Hi all

 

Thanks for the great information,
I've been also approached to record an full orchestra, probably for B roll / BTS  but they want to have the full sound recording of the event.

The concert is taking place outdoors, so wind protection of the mics will be necessary. My idea was to use the equipment I already have.

Will a pair of CMC641 in Baby Ball Gags in a ORTF configuration above and behind the conductor be enough ? Or since it's an open air outdoor event will a stereo pair won't be enough?

I also have a pair of MK12 which I could use with omnis as AB pair or with the fig of 8 adapter as  MS stereo rig

and Audio Technica MS stereo shotgun.

 

Thanks

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