DPA Lavs

[Morantzsound]

I know this has probably been brought up a few times in the past, but I wanted to get opinions of people who have used the DPA Lavs.  I have used the Sanken COS-11's for years and love them, but I am always interested in trying new things.  I know they are more expensive but can anybody notice a considerable difference( I know they are slightly harder to hide then the Sankens) and if so which model do people use for film.  I know Jeff did use them and if not what did he switch to.

Thanks,

Steve Morantz

[Jeff Wexler]

I had used the Sanken COS-11's for years and years with my Audio, Ltd. wireless and I really liked everything about them. Before that, my favorite lav was the Sennheiser MKE-2. When I started using the Zaxcom digital wireless several years ago, the COS-11 mic and the digital transmitters did not play well together (although I did use the Sankens with the Zaxcoms but there was always this feeling that maybe there would be some additional noise introduced that I might not be aware of until it was too late. There just wasn't the degree of stability and predictability that I was used to with the Audio, Ltd. - COS-11 setup. So, I started using the DPA lav with the Zaxcoms and it was at this time when I was increasingly unable to use the totally non-frequency agile Audio, Ltd.'s, so any sort of comparison would not be possible. The pure digital wireless is so different than the analog Audios that a comparison of the mic might not have been possible anyway.

I have now been using the Zaxcoms exclusively and with the DPA's and I am very pleased. The DPA is definitely a smoother sounding microphone which is not an all together good thing --- the extra bump in the response of the COS-11 in upper mid and high frequency makes it a much better sounding mic when mounted in a tie for example. The DPA does not do so well there. Don Coufal tells me that the DPA is a little harder to deal with in terms of mounting but it's not a deal breaker.

All in all I think the DPA is a really good sounding lav. I am going to continue to pursue the progress that is being made to get the Sanken CIOS-11 to work well with the Zaxcoms --- there are people, notably Billy Sarokin in New York, that have used the COS-11 successfully (and he is ALL Zaxcom with his rig).

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[FSBELLA]

hey guys,

a couple things.

Jw we have used the sankens w/ the zax systems with no complaints to date (past month) and the countryman emw lav (think tram tr 50 but thinner)

morantz- the 4063 & 4061 are the 2 lav/microphones. we used to rent them out for the Big brother reality show (they ended up purchasing them) dpa's claim to fame is that they are Mini microphones (they dont like the word lav) the diaphram or head of the mic is pretty big (mke-2) compared to the cos-11.

[bcopenhagen]

I love the sound of DPAs.  The 3 flavors I have in my kit are 4060, 4061 & 4071.  4060s are hi-gain, good for average dialog, very low noise floor.  4061s are the lo-gain version of these, good for louder delivery stuff (even yelling), but the compromise is a higher noise floor.  4071 is the advancement to both:  low noise floor, low gain structure, so you can take the add'l gain you need at the transmitter.

Removeable caps on the 4060/4061 allow for different degrees of boost at 5-10k.  4071s are sold with a "fixed" cap that gives the high-end boost that helps out with the attenuation that happens under clothing.  I remove the caps from ALL the models (the 4071 comes off with an extra, CAREFUL tug), rendering them flat and take the EQ with the mixing panel.

Bigger than COS-11s, sure, but very hide-able.

Also sound fantastic as plant mics.

I've suddenly realized I could be construed as a DPA fanatic as I'm using the 4017 (shotgun) as the primary mic on the current feature I'm booming.

Brian

[Morantzsound]

JW, Scibella, and Brian,

Thanks for your opinions. I really appreciate it.  Also by talking to a few people off the site today, one other negative I heard was that the microphone cables are not the best and do break fairly easy.  Still will probably give them a whirl though.

Steve

[rich]

I'm a big fan of the dpa lavs. i used the 4071's with my 2020's and now 4063's with my zaxcoms. i think they sound a bit more open than the sankens.

the only failure I've had is when i crushed a 4071 in a van door which i was intending to use as a plant mic. the cables, over the 2 years Ive been using them have been (so far, doubtless they'll all spontaneously combust 4 seconds after posting this) very reliable, even with talent de-micing themselves.

also Brian, whats your opinion on the 4017? do you have any experience of the kmr81 as i am considering replacing my kmr with the 4017, especially if it has better rf rejection - been caught out in a location with lots of fluorescent lights. presumably it sound great with the 4061 and 4071's etc

[RPSharman]

The MKE-2 is still my favorite.  The head is a little smaller than it used to be.  The red dot version is a better match with the Lectro wireless.  I don't have their ultra thin version, so can't comment on that.  But the standard version sounds great and, in my opinion, sounds much better up high (especially in a tie) than the COS-11, which I also own but only use if hiding is a problem.

Robert

[soundtrane]

Anyone using the DPA lavs with this accessory?

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/products.aspx?c=Item&category=193&item=24194

thanks,

-vin

[Gene Martin]

Vin,

I mainly use that mount for FX recordings with my 4062's. It's a little heavy for most applications, but it does work very well on the inside of a suit jacket or a sun visor in a car.

As far as DPA.... I love my 4017's. I switched over to the DPA from my cmit-5u's (which i still like) about a month ago and am very pleased. I have 2 of the 4062's for FX due to the extra low sensitivity and they have a SPL of 154. I use the 4063 with my Zaxcom on occasion (indoors), but my favorite lav is the Sennheiser MKE-1. They sound great and the size is in between a COS-11 and a B6 so it's very easy to hide.

Gene

[soundtrane]

How do DPA users work with Lectro transmitters? I am wondering if this needs the Microdot to TA5F adaptor or one can buy a DPA lav directly wired to a TA5F?

thanks,

-vin

[Twade]

You can wire the mic directly to ta5f if you want - you'll just have no chance to use the advantages of the microdot.  It requires a VERY expensive tool to rewire a microdot to the end of the mic.

The DPA's sound great (maybe the best?).  The accessory options are vast and many.  THe 4071 with the DPA0509 (double sided tape + plastic housing) is a really great solution. 

If only they were a little less...

[Noah Timan]

Hi Vin,

Lectro has a guide for wiring the DPA microphones, here:

http://www.lectrosonics.com/service/ServoBiasWiring.pdf

(you'll have to scroll down)

I have used it on 4060s with good results. 

Hi Steve,

I also concur with the masses here that the DPA is a smoother sounding lav than the Sanken.  I also heard what you did about the cable being more fragile and shied away from them for some time for this reason, but in practice it hasn't been an issue.  As Jeff notes, it's worthwhile to keep a few Sankens around regardless for things like ties and other applications where the Sanken is easier to mount.

[BVS]

I use that plastic holder for my 4071's on many occasions....I have the microdot adapters on all 3 mics,also the 48 volt adapters for i/v's...I  am using the DPA's with my SM and Audio Ltd transmitters with great success..never any problems..the DPA's sound the best of all I have used..my rig for them I have posted previously but here it is again..

http://www.jwsound.net/SMF/index.php?topic=1679.0

This is a very fast rig to put on,works in most situations...the reason for the size is...a great solid anchor point with the neoprene,keeps the cable below the capsule quieter and the wind fluffy is great for protecting the capsule for clothes rubbing...and in New Zealand's wind.(Ask Jeff about that..lol..)

if you want a smaller rig..then try the Superdots Ultra... www.fantastak.com

these seriously stick to the capsule...

[Andy P]

They've been my preferred "mini mic" of choice for a few years now too. I'm using 4060's with Audio Ltd 2020's. As others have said, they just sound a bit rounder and fuller. The only problem that I encountered when I first started using them was they were more susceptible to wind noise, probably due to the larger capsule than the Sankens and slightly more LF response.

I didn't have too much success with the plastic concealer though, I thought it was too big and bulky. One of my favourite rigs is with one of the DPA sticky pads covered with a Rycote undercover. I can go from indoors to outdoors with this for doco jobs, The DPA sticky pad gives a bit more rigidity than just double sided tape. BVS's model looks good though, and those mini jammers work really well.

[soundtrane]

Thanks for all the info guys. I'll try check out the DPA's soon...

best regards

-vin

[studiomprd]

Reality lav's??

" types of lavs you use when 'hiding' the mic doesn't really matter. "

the most rugged!

I like emw's.

[minister]

I love the sound of DPAs.  The 3 flavors I have in my kit are 4060, 4061 & 4071.  4060s are hi-gain, good for average dialog, very low noise floor.  4061s are the lo-gain version of these, good for louder delivery stuff (even yelling), but the compromise is a higher noise floor.  4071 is the advancement to both:  low noise floor, low gain structure, so you can take the add'l gain you need at the transmitter.

Removeable caps on the 4060/4061 allow for different degrees of boost at 5-10k.  4071s are sold with a "fixed" cap that gives the high-end boost that helps out with the attenuation that happens under clothing.  I remove the caps from ALL the models (the 4071 comes off with an extra, CAREFUL tug), rendering them flat and take the EQ with the mixing panel.

Hi All,

I had a question about this post.  I am going to purchase 2 DPA Lavs and I want them to do double duty of location audio and FX gathering.  The 4071's interest me, but I would want them flat for FX gathering.  My dealer tells me DPA swears that you cannot "de-activate" the presence boost as it is "acoustical".  Well, that just tells me that it is in the design of the body is what gives this boost -- like a shotgun uses the interference tube for off-axis cancellation.  According to Brian's post here, an extra CAREFUL Tug will get that cap off.

Any reason I should NOT get the 4071's for my intended purpose?  Any one else have a problem doing the "mod" Brian mentions?

Great forums - thanks to all for the info.

Thanks again

[John Blankenship]

I've been reading this thread with interest, as I have no experience with these lavs.  I would be interested in hearing from the mixers doing 'reality' television, because their lavaliers are usually in plain site and open.  I would think this would be an opportunity to use the best quality lav available? 

So maybe the 'reality' folks could chime in, if you haven't already, and mention the types of lavs you use when 'hiding' the mic doesn't really matter.

A lot of the "reality" shows require that the mic be hidden.  In either case, I use Sanken either hidden, or in the open, as my first choice.  After that I have several other options for when the situation dictates, B6, EMW, Sennheiser, etc.

John B.

[studiomprd]

" Any one else have a problem doing the "mod" Brian mentions? "

I suspect that it voids the warranty...

[jonathan chiles]

I still havnt had a chance to try the DPA lavs, have heard so many good things.. but like Mr Sharman I am pretty happy with Sanken COS11's and also prefer the sound of the MKE2 over anything else I've heard. I have some red dot and some not but I find they are open and natural sounding (which is the claim usually for the DPA's) and cut well with Schoeps MK41 and the Sennheiser shotguns I use.

Only thing with the MKE2 is the somewhat thick and stiff cable.. so often Sankens will have less cable noise transmitted.

Jon Chiles

[Tuomas Klaavo]

Hello

My first post here. I work in both production and post sound in Finland, currently visiting Sweden's Trollhättan, working on a Finnish film's studio shoots for this week.

I love DPA 4060 lavs after having used them for more than six years. The plastic concealer is great, and can be easily fixed in clothing with any 2-sided tape. It is important to tape the mic in the concealer so, that it isn't too deep down in the hole, as this affects the sound. The choice of two caps are nice, I like the hi-boost cap when hidden under clothing and the other when used as a plant mic or in plain sight.

When using Lectrosonics transmitters with the new servo bias inputs, the 4060 needs a special wiring with a 3-4kOhm resistor inside the connector (see link on a previous post), otherwise the signal is too hot.

But: I just bought three 4061 mics, which is the same with lower sensibility, and they sound fine on SM transmitters without the resistor (otherwise the same wiring). I don't know if this is technically correct way to do it, but it sounds fine.

I have never used the DPA adapters, just cut their own connector off and wired a TA-5F in its place.

The mic sounds "big", is small enough for most uses and has low self noise. It makes a great plant mic for car interiors, etc. I'm so used to using it, that I keep the concealers on most of them readily installed, so they're really fast to use.

But you use what you like best!

My 2 Euro cents

And thanks to all the contributors to this group, which I've been reading for some time now.

Regards,

Tuomas Klaavo

Helsinki, Finland

[Jeff Wexler]

I love DPA 4060 lavs after having used them for more than six years. The plastic concealer is great, and can be easily fixed in clothing with any 2-sided tape. It is important to tape the mic in the concealer so, that it isn't too deep down in the hole, as this affects the sound.

Regards,

Tuomas Klaavo

Helsinki, Finland

I started using the DPA lavs several years ago when I began using the Zaxcom wireless and my Sanken COS-11 lavs did not work properly with the digital wireless. Sanken has since upgraded the COS-11 to the COS-11D which works fine and is very much immune to RF. I continue to use the DPAs because I really love the sound. I had never even heard about the concealers so thanks for mentioning that. I made my own concealers, cages sort of, in 1972 to faciliatate mounting the mic on an actress where we were having lots of noise problems. It is nice to see that DPA provides this as an accessory. I am sure they are VERY expensive, oh well.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[jason porter]

Jeff,

Please explain your 'concealer' design, maybe a photo?

[Jeff Wexler]

Jeff,

Please explain your 'concealer' design, maybe a photo?

No photos (first used in 1972) and designed to conceal a SONY ECM-50 which was the main lav used at that time. Basically, I took a large diameter plastic ball point pen, cut it up to produce a sort of plastic cone/cage that held the microphone. The plastic was smooth and allowed clothing to move across its surface without generating the kind of noise we had from direct contact with the body of the mic.

- Jeff Wexler

[Steven Van Roy]

minister,

There is a huge difference in sound of the 4060 and the 4071!

The 4060 is really up to the gathering of ambience and effects, with full and punchy sound. It comes with 2 small acoustic caps, which alter the high frequencies. You put the one you like for your application - or none.

I did some very nice binaural recordings with these.

On the 4071 the cap is fixed, but also, there's a lot of bass cut! This mic is really tailored acoustically to the human voice and thus needs no lows - this mic is i.e. much better in windy conditions.

I own them both ans i would never use the 4071 for general recording. And since it's about the same price, i would never hammer the head off it ;o! i think it's molded and i suppose it voids warranty.

My opinion..

Grtz all

Steven