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regarding anonymity


Jeff Wexler

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I am requesting once again that those few people on this group who have not yet identified themselves by use of a real name, hopefully their own, should really consider doing so now. Even if it just served to make me happy, why not do it? I have tried very hard to make this forum truly personal and open to any and all opinions --- I have the highest regard for free speech and more importantly free expression, but as in face to face discourse where you know who you are talking with, I would like this group to act the same. Further, I really appreciate the majority of people here who have also gone one more step and posted a little bio --- no great literary opus necessary, just a brief bit of biographical, geographical and possible professional background info would be great.

For new members signing up I would hope that they would follow these guidelines as well.

Thanks for listening and thank you to all those who make this group an interesting and vital meeting place for us all --- let's try and make it even better!

Best regards, your host,  Jeff Wexler

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Guest afewmoreyears

I for one wish to speak frankly and freely without attachment to a person..... I want to discuss issues and gear without prejudice as to who I am....  I might have to deal with one of these companies some day and don't want to be identified as one who has said something negative while expressing my OPINIONS....  Kinda like you calling up Fostex Jeff......  Thats exactly what I mean......  Otherwise you risk becoming a pariah.

I respect the right and decision of those who wish to state freely who they are....  I would like to also think that it would be respected that those of us who do not wish to do so will be both allowed and respected for their preference in this matter,  to not disclose such information.

  I am on many web forums for different things.... it is NOT the norm to use your name by the way....  If some wish to,  no problem, but I Never see it on other forums....  If I do it's only newbee's who don't know better...

My feelings and opinions are only such....  who cares who they're from.....  I am not really here on this site to make friends, but to simply exchange info and ideas between persons who share a common job. I also like to share what little knowledge  I have on issues with those I might be able to help...  Again, who I am does not matter,  I do it for the craft only, not recognition...

Again, and as always,  just an opinion from some idiot on the web..... I have considered it,  for about a tenth of a second, and am not interested...  Hope your not offended or upset....  but for me, thats how it is...  thats how I see things...:)

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I will respond to AFMY directly here since I think his (or her) comments could serve as a good template for me to fine tune MY feelings on the issue. So, bear with me.

"I for one wish to speak frankly and freely without attachment to a person..... I want to discuss issues and gear without prejudice as to who I am...."

This is a specious argument and is contradictory. Anytime "YOU" speak here, those statements ARE attached to a person, a person you have chosen to identify only as "A Few More Years". Any discussion will not be devoid of prejudice or opinion, it is just that the opinion will be tied to a "person" we will never know beyond the moniker "AFMY".

"I might have to deal with one of these companies some day and don't want to be identified as one who has said something negative while expressing my OPINIONS...."

Saying something negative IS expressing an opinion...  it seems somewhat two-faced and devious to  say something negative about a company or a product but insuring that the company will never know who you are.

"I respect the right and decision of those who wish to state freely who they are....  I would like to also think that it would be respected that those of us who do not wish to do so will be both allowed and respected for their preference in this matter,  to not disclose such information."

I do respect those who wish to remain anonymous, although I still don't entirely understand it. It is not as if we are dealing with whistle-blowers here or people in witness protection or anything. As I think about this anonymity more and more, I do begin to understand the reasons, and I don't agree with the underlying principle which is essentially mis-direction and deceit.

"I am on many web forums for different things.... it is NOT the norm to use your name by the way....  If some wish to,  no problem, but I Never see it on other forums...."

I am well aware that people like to use an online moniker and often this is different for different forums and groups depending on their purpose. I am not opposed to anyone having an online persona --- I really liked it when Crew posts as "old school" and I even like your "afewmoreyears" and we do learn to identify the posts using these names. What I believe IS the norm on lots of other forums, and I agree with you there, is to use some moniker, nickname, online name, etc., that is why I have no objection to that.

"My feelings and opinions are only such....  who cares who they're from....."

I do, and it's my forum. I could just do what other sites often do which is put in a few more layers of "security" before you can even sign up. If I had done that already, you might never have even signed up. I have signed up for other forums and discussion groups where the host or a moderator will thoroughly vet a prospective member before they are even allowed to participate.

"I am not really here on this site to make friends, but to simply exchange info and ideas between persons who share a common job. I also like to share what little knowledge  I have on issues with those I might be able to help...  Again, who I am does not matter,  I do it for the craft only, not recognition..."

No one is asking you to be a friend (or to even behave in a friendly manner --- courteousness is expected but difficult to enforce) but there are a lot of people on this group who do treat it more than just a faceless collection of posts --- I have always hoped  that this group could be somewhat different than all the other forums out there (like the ones you mention that you participate in with probably a whole different persona). To a certain extent this group is like a neighborhood and the problem that I am having is that when we all get together for a town hall meeting there are always a few people in the corner with bags over their heads.

"Again, and as always,  just an opinion from some idiot on the web....."

Why not let us decide whether your just "some idiot on the web"? This goes to the issue of why I think it is important to know something about this person who is just offering up opinions, experiences, even help or assistance to others. I know that for me, when I am getting advice from someone or help on any matter, I like to be able to get some idea of the credibility and depth of experience. For example, if I were to offer advice to someone or to help someone with a technical issue, and I posted as "bigshotinthefilmbiz" and said that I had done over 70 major feature films...  where's the credibility? Who is going to be able to look up "bigshotinthefilmbiz" in IMDB?

"I have considered it,  for about a tenth of a second, and am not interested...  Hope your not offended or upset....  but for me, thats how it is...  thats how I see things..."

I still disagree with you, on principe and in practice, and I still feel that whatever positive contribution you may have to this group is often offset by your refusal to identify yourself.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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Ok, speaking to me.. how do I go about changin my handle to my real name then?

Thanks

Hey "borg" nice to have you hear. I am not suggesting anyone change their handle --- that 's entirely up to you when you sign up and if it's what you like then we'll all fly with it. What you can do, and again it is not mandatory it is just something that I think improves this group for everyone, is take a moment to post a little bio, maybe give us your name, where you live and what sort of work you do. It's really okay to even NOT be working in any of the related sound jobs --- we have quite a few people here who are just interested in what the rest of us do in our world and that's fine.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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I for one wish to speak frankly and freely without attachment to a person..... I want to discuss issues and gear without prejudice as to who I am....  I might have to deal with one of these companies some day and don't want to be identified as one who has said something negative while expressing my OPINIONS....  Kinda like you calling up Fostex Jeff......  Thats exactly what I mean......  Otherwise you risk becoming a pariah.

I respect the right and decision of those who wish to state freely who they are....  I would like to also think that it would be respected that those of us who do not wish to do so will be both allowed and respected for their preference in this matter,  to not disclose such information.

  I am on many web forums for different things.... it is NOT the norm to use your name by the way....  If some wish to,  no problem, but I Never see it on other forums....  If I do it's only newbee's who don't know better...

My feelings and opinions are only such....  who cares who they're from.....  I am not really here on this site to make friends, but to simply exchange info and ideas between persons who share a common job. I also like to share what little knowledge  I have on issues with those I might be able to help...  Again, who I am does not matter,  I do it for the craft only, not recognition...

Again, and as always,  just an opinion from some idiot on the web..... I have considered it,  for about a tenth of a second, and am not interested...  Hope your not offended or upset....  but for me, thats how it is...  thats how I see things...:)

I understand that on many other audio forums it is customary to use a handle when signing posts.  I personally don't like this practice, and think that it is one of the causes of the huge tide of mis- and dis-information on the web concerning technical audio matters, as well as some of the wearisome posturing and tiresome rants one sees on Gearslutz etc if nothing else.  It is just plain easier to get your mad on with someone on a forum if you can do it anonymously, and the temptation to go over the top when one is in the mood is very great when you are writing as "no one in particular".  I am not accusing you of doing this, but one of the major attractions of this forum for me  (as well as Lynn Fuston's "3DB" forum--similar to this only more focussed on music studio recording) is that the custom IS to sign your posts so readers know who is speaking, and can research them and see if their opinion (possibly on a subject the reader doesn't know much about) is worth considering.  In short, I don't see why prevailing custom has to apply here in this regard.  It's up to Jeff to decide how to deal with this matter, but I would vote for at least requesting that posters, especially frequent posters, identify themselves.  I DO care where the opinions I read come from, the same here as I do in the newspaper.  What exactly is the problem with having an opinion attached to a person?  An old-fashioned "newbie" idea?

Philip Perkins

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Guest afewmoreyears

Jeff Wexler:

This is a specious argument and is contradictory. Anytime "YOU" speak here, those statements ARE attached to a person, a person you have chosen to identify only as "A Few More Years". Any discussion will not be devoid of prejudice or opinion, it is just that the opinion will be tied to a "person" we will never know beyond the moniker "AFMY".

Thats exactly how I like it!

"My feelings and opinions are only such....  who cares who they're from....."

Jeff Wexler,

I do, and it's my forum. I could just do what other sites often do which is put in a few more layers of "security" before you can even sign up. If I had done that already, you might never have even signed up. I have signed up for other forums and discussion groups where the host or a moderator will thoroughly vet a prospective member before they are even allowed to participate.

Boy, you put me in my place with that one....  Like the little kid on the playground......  Vet away if you like.....  " It's your site!!!  I just don't see what or where this matters.....  who  cares!!!!  No one..... 

  I do not give out secret info, or plans to a nuke sub, this is just banter about sound stuff....  It does not matter in the big scheme of things.... It's for info and opinions....  What in gods name is the deal here Jeff?

Jeff Wexler:

Why not let us decide whether your just "some idiot on the web"? This goes to the issue of why I think it is important to know something about this person who is just offering up opinions, experiences, even help or assistance to others. I know that for me, when I am getting advice from someone or help on any matter, I like to be able to get some idea of the credibility and depth of experience. For example, if I were to offer advice to someone or to help someone with a technical issue, and I posted as "bigshotinthefilmbiz" and said that I had done over 70 major feature films...  where's the credibility? Who is going to be able to look up "bigshotinthefilmbiz" in IMDB?

AFMY,

  If I am on a site for motor oil, and ask a question, I don't treat it as gospel.....  I continue to probe.....  I am sure others do this as well on your site....  Nothing is written in gold, my opinions or others....    I don't care about their depth of experience.....  It's a forum....  this is how it goes.....  If someone says something so stupid, the community will bear him or her out... or shut them down.....  let the community deal with this....  Someones perceived reputation does not make them "the credible one"  More so yes, but not the....  so....  let the site work for itself....  Thats how sites like this work.....  the weeding out is done by the quality of info on the posts themselves.... Sounds like you assume people  are dumb,  I know you know they are not, so let them decide post by post....

Jeff Wexler,

I still disagree with you, on principe and in practice, and I still feel that whatever positive contribution you may have to this group is often offset by your refusal to identify yourself.

It bugs you that much doesn't it?  Jeff,  nobody but you really cares.....    Get over it.....  I still like you...  BIG KISS!!!!!!!

AFMY!

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  Hey all, greetings from here n now. I respect the right to remain anonymous. Good luck in this day and age. I was on probably 20 surveillance cams today, and I only went to the hardware store. I left a trail on the internet as wide as a freeway. Anyone can Google Earth anyone, even me.  Made too many calls. NSA has it all logged... All my telephone #'s have been on a 1,000,000,000 call sheets, every other # on a timecard or i 9.  Personally I can't see how to become anonymous, so I don't try. I like communication and creation how ever it happens.  Jeff's site is a good example of both. Somedays not so much, but most days the community does it well.  Even though I have never had a face to face with most here, I feel I know many of them by their posts. Seems like everyone is letting it all hang out... BTW, I know AFMY. He has a good rep with his peers, but if he doesn't want others to know his name, well that is his right, but I think he's wrong. AFMY's has many gr8 POV's. Attitude and energy. Plus he works all the time. All good in my book. Say it loud n say it proud bro... Or not. Last thought, I do think the Moderator should know who is who on his site.

CrewC

   

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Okay, I give up. After some encouragement from Philip's post I thought I should continue to pursue this, but then the ever so wise comments from my good buddy Crew have convinced me that there is good reason to drop this. All the references to how all the other massive number of forums, groups, internet sign ups and everything work I guess I am just naive enough to think that maybe we were doing something a little different here. Oh, well, it's just a site and my name is all over it but it may well be that AFMY's comment that "it's just a site" and it will be what ever it will be regardless of how I feel about it is all too true.

So, carry on, have fun, be smart, be stupid or at the very least just BE (and I will try to restrain myself).

Enjoy,

-  Jeff Wexler

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It's sometimes a scary thing, especially for those (myself included) that are relatively new to the industry and not as knowledgeable as some here, to post a question or make a statement and come off looking like a complete amateur.

I've done it here a few times... and deleted my posts promptly

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It's sometimes a scary thing, especially for those (myself included) that are relatively new to the industry and not as knowledgeable as some here, to post a question or make a statement and come off looking like a complete amateur.

I've done it here a few times... and deleted my posts promptly

Don't.  We need everybody.  Questions asked by beginners often show up holes in the knowledge of many of us who have been doing this work longer.  Things are changing fast and all of us need help.

Philip Perkins

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It's sometimes a scary thing, especially for those (myself included) that are relatively new to the industry and not as knowledgeable as some here, to post a question or make a statement and come off looking like a complete amateur.

I've done it here a few times... and deleted my posts promptly

There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers. Ask away, it's one of the ways you learn.

Eric

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hey guys,

we all should know who he are "talking" to, getting feedback, advice and real world experience from. it would be nice to put a "face to the voice" if you know what I mean. working for a sound rental/sales company for the last 10 years, I have met or talked to most of you who post here. if we know the poster or even there  background it does give the poster certain suggestions or there opinions a degree of "credibility".

Jw sound.net  seems to me, to be a special forum. unlike the other user end forums or blogs, this site feels more personal and caring than the other sites. screen names are a part of us and represents us. maybe a small bio or quick little sentence of what type of work one might do would be cool.

If old school/crew c can vouch/backup afmys, that is good enough for me (my 2C's)

Frank Scibella

Rental Manager

Coffey Sound

Los Angeles,CA.

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There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers. Ask away, it's one of the ways you learn.

Eric

This is me quoting you quoting me...  that phrase appears on my personal website (a site that really has little value or interest other than a gateway to this group). The phrase really does say it all and in a clever way. I'm just like everybody else, somewhat fearful at times of even asking some questions ... worried that someone will say "Jeff Wexler doesn't know THAT ?" but as others have said here that we should never stop asking questions and should never feel that it might reveal too much about us.

It is my hope as always that we can all feel as free as our own personalities and mind sets allow, to participate here, feeling good about ourselves and the community of sound people in our group.

-  Jeff Wexler

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To AFMY, I don't know who you are, but I see your photo of someone riding a motorcycle.  I've ridden motorcycles since I was 13 years old, and we might have an affinity aside from film sound, but since I don't know who you are, and I don't think this is the appropriate site for it, we'll never have the opportunity to share our love of motorcycles with one another.

The Bartender

Part of what is at the root of my problem is that it is not so clear to me why each person participates here. I suppose the answer is as varied as we are as individuals and it is quite possibly foolish for me to have assumed some common purpose or intent. In regards to your comments about having a common interest in motorcycles, reading one of AFMY's last posts he declares that he is "not here to make friends" so I guess that gives a little insight.

I will say again that I do understand that this is just a site but I have made a conscious effort from the beginning to make it something different than many of the others. I didn't want it to be just like a newsgroup (r.a.m.p.s.), or a technical forum where the only things that are discussed ar equipment specs, nor did I want it to be MySpace for Sound people with all the obnoxious "be my friend" links, smiley face emoticons all over the place and so on. I think we have all made our personal contributions that have in fact helped create a meeting place, a technical resource, and maybe even a place to make friends...  keep up the good work; I personally appreciate it all.

-  Jeff Wexler

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Generally, I also agree with both POV's!!

in specific regard to JW's forum, I personally appreciate knowing the identities of the folks I'm conversing with, as mostly we are talking technical topics and sharing personal experiences and opinions...

While it is sufficient to know that someone is experienced, and vouched for,  I give more weight (agreeing or disagreeing) when I know the source and can evaluate its credibility.

so, I guess we'll have it both ways here on jwsound...

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Guest afewmoreyears

I appreciate the Vouching from Crew.....  thanks,  although I do not need anyone to Vouch for me.......

  I stand by my mindless posts..... If you feel what I have to say is bullsh-it,  move to the next post......    Come on now....  That is how this works.....  I read a lot of crap here,  I never care who it is from.... crap is crap no matter where it is from....  unfortunately,  I will not provide examples....  I process the info,  and move on....  It is a web forum...  let the forum and the responses speak for themselves....  as it has been said, if you want to know all,  who, what, where, why...go to myspace at:Myspace.com

If you choose to ask someone who they are, ask.... if they opt out,  their right to do so...  I support freedom and rights without attachments...  what next,  how hot is your wife.....  WE NEED TO KNOW!  WE NEED TO KNOW IT ALL! 

  If you want to remain in the background,  do so .....  I support it all....  I just don't understand any of this....  at all...  Freedom... do what you want!

Remember,  just like TV...  your always free to simply ignore.....  It's so easy.....  I'll read more and post less on this site.

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Guest afewmoreyears

Cboom,

Don't you get it!?    Let's not.......  totally disrespectful...  rude,  and  dumb within the context of this discussion.... 

Please get real....

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AFMYS,

for me personally, we have the LABOR/RENTAL rates very much in common. we both strive to better educate the users here and the mixers out in the field. you have very strong opinions as I do about this important topic. remember are rally cry. stay firm on your rates, production Will come up with the money.

I do like your input and it would be rather dull here if you did not post your thoughts. from your pasts posts, I know you are very experienced when dealing with producers etc. and with the film BUSINESS in general.

I would like to know a little of your work background, you mix commercials primarily?,how did you start out?

what city are you based out of? what is your favorite color? (kidding)

we are all part of the same team, same community.

good luck,

frank

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Cboom,

Don't you get it!?    Let's not.......  totally disrespectful...  rude,  and  dumb within the context of this discussion.... 

Please get real....

Alright, now I am more than mildly pissed off. I am sure Chrisboom was just joking...  it's not as if it was a call to arms or some kind of invitation to a lynching or a witch hunt, but that's not what I am pissed off about. I received a private message from the ever so anonymous AFMY regarding the idea, said in jest, about a poll. Here is the private message: "Chrisbooms request for the "poll"  is totally uncalled for and rude.  I would appreciate your support here....  As I said,  I will stop posting if it is such a big deal, I have no problem with that....  I will go away....  but a poll like that will really send me to an unhappy place, a place I don't want to go."  Now, some may wonder why I would post a PRIVATE message (many of you may be aware of this feature and have used it in past when you may have wanted to alert me to something that is bugging you) and it is because AFMY sent me the message without the means to reply, privately or publicly. Whether it was accidental or intentional, as a member (for quite some time now) AFMY is now appearing as a GUEST with no readily accessible email. It's one thing to want to be anonymous but what has happened with AFMY actually breaks the TOS (terms of service) of even the freest forums including this one.

There are certain user settable personal preferences I have provided whereby you can set things in your Profiles area, but I did not know that you could sign on as a GUEST after being a regular member with full privileges, and still retain the functioning of a full member. What has transpired with AFMY now compels me to institute tighter control over this forum including the overall sign up procedure and some of the freedom to configure members' personal presence here. I am sorry about this but it seems as if AFMY's desire for his own anonymity has had a wider effect on the functioning of this group.

-  Jeff Wexler

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Of course my comment was a joke. Jeeeeeezzz . Somebody tell AFMY to get off the cross

All of us shouldn't care. Let us go back to enjoying Jeff's website. Who cares if  AMFY wants to be hidden?

Lets call a spade a spade, of course his comments wouldn't be so harsh sometimes if his full name was out in the open in his screen name. Let the guy be a " guest " forever . 

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