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Arri Amira


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Much, much, much screaming about this on the Red User group. They can't understand how an "inferior" camera can be so successful. I think you have to consider that this camera is made for the doco crowd, and is perfect for reality, news, even live events that only need HD. I can't imagine a better to camera to grab if I was going in a high-stress situation where I had to have a camera that was 100% reliable all the time, where there was zero time for a retake.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, I understand that there will be eight live 4K cameras for the Superbowl broadcast on Sunday, and all of them are Sony. The problem for Red is that 4K may eventually be a big success, but other companies' 4K cameras might ultimately be the winner.

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Spent last week with a RED Epic. Nice pictures, generally easy to work with. Generally. The fan was mostly under control. The Redmote went down for a day and the owner/operator (who's a good DP and a good guy AND familiar with his equipment) couldn't get it working. Had about 2-4 reboots per day. And these were basically easy days in fairly controlled environments.

 

I'm not saying anything anyone here doesn't know. But geez, the thought of taking a RED camera into the wilds of direct cinema /verite docs just freaks me out. Well, it doesn't because unless RED introduces something new (which they might), I'm not going to even consider RED for such gigs when it's my choice.

 

Amira and some other cameras, on the other hand...

 

 

Jim "the resolution will not be televised" Feeley

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Hi, I am Andrew from Abelcine in NYC and Abelcine will be the North American reseller of the Arri Amira.

Deposit info can be found here and preliminary pricing packages can be found under the "Includes" tab

http://www.abelcine.com/store/ARRI-AMIRA-Camera/#tabs

I hope to have more details to share, especially about the Amira's audio capabilities and Features as soon we receive our first camera demo unit.

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 But geez, the thought of taking a RED camera into the wilds of direct cinema /verite docs just freaks me out. Well, it doesn't because unless RED introduces something new (which they might), I'm not going to even consider RED for such gigs when it's my choice.

It only depends on the operator setup. I've been working alone with the Epic in the Amazon filming tribes with power every 2 days and had no problem. Set it up correctly and doco style is an easy go with the Epic. 

 

Epic_Custom_shoulder2.jpg

 

B006_C001_07187M0003403_zps0249d32c.jpg

 

Pat

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Or a Sony F900?

 

Too heavy and too power hungry! Plus the tape can get stuck due to heat & humidity issues. I think the cost of the F900 is down to $3000 on eBay right now. Sad, how low the mighty have fallen. (Then again, a 15-year-old $10,000 computer probably now costs $50 on eBay.)

 

 

It only depends on the operator setup. I've been working alone with the Epic in the Amazon filming tribes with power every 2 days and had no problem. Set it up correctly and doco style is an easy go with the Epic. 

 

Try a 3-hour take and let me know how it goes on the Epic. I think for its intended purpose, the Amira is a perfect camera for docos. I see it as a competitor for Canon, JVC, Panasonic, and Sony, not a competitor for Red. There's a big market of camera users out there, and not everybody is shooting scripted features that need 4K. 

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Try a 3-hour take and let me know how it goes on the Epic. I think for its intended purpose, the Amira is a perfect camera for docos. I see it as a competitor for Canon, JVC, Panasonic, and Sony, not a competitor for Red. There's a big market of camera users out there, and not everybody is shooting scripted features that need 4K. 

 

Marc,

Have you had any trouble shooting a 3 hour take on the Epic? I don't. I've been shooting on the Epic handheld in the Amazon rainforest without a script. You just need to prepare your tools for the shoot. I've gone alone to places like in a 300m deep goldmining cavern with the Epic where no Alexa could have gone. Now people have to adapt their tool the the shooting conditions.

 

If any one need help I can share my experience.

 

This is not breaking news.

 

Pat

 

PS: the only part I find sad is that Arri is not pushing the industry but doing what Sony has done during Years : creating great design on recycled technology.

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Hi  Patrick, your obviously proud of your camera, which is cool, but I can tell you as a mixer, I've had problems with Epics at even 20 minute clips.  The fan noise in certain environments become unacceptably loud.  I've seen several Epics with catastrophic fan unit failure where the module forces the fan at 100%... a couple of units and a well known issue - a quality control or design issue across the board.  The balance of the rig you have seems like it is more front heavy than what the Amira would offer - as a non-shooter, just my casual observation, if perhaps somewhat uninformed.

 

4K workflow - yep the Amira would be disqualified, but as of now, I don't see too many 4K productions in what I do - not saying that my experience matches or sets some benchmark of what's happening in the field, but bringing a 4K camera where it's not needed is not good business sense, just like bringing a 3D rig on a 2D shoot makes no sense either.

 

As an owner operator, there are a lot of compelling reasons to go with RED, but don't expect people to select you just on the fact that your camera can shoot 4K - you already know this of course, don't mean to sound preachy.  That being said, overall I like the Epic for the image that it can produce and the post capabilities.  I don't agree that it is good for doc situations, though, at this point in time, due to the fan noise - the only attribute I'm really qualified to comment on.

 

What Arri has done is brought (soon) a camera to maket that shooters and directors want, because it matches the criteria of those members.  When its client base wants 4K, because the jobs want 4K, Arri will respond and release a camera in kind.  The cameras will have paid for themselves, will have great resale value, and everyone will be happy to upgrade.  This camera is going to sell in big numbers, and if that is true, will back up my theory.

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Hello Tom,

 

I understand your point of view but I wonder if you worked with the FanPlate? The only solution out there to keep your camera quiet. If today, the 100% fan is kiking in, it's a statement that your operator don't know his tool. There are two things to do to make the Epic work flawlessly and quiet:

 

- fan set to adaptive mode quiet record set to 70C° (to keep it from overhating at lowest fan speed)

- the FanPlate (to cool it down and lower the fan noise)

 

Anyone who didn't tried these two things can't argue (with me) about a loud Epic.

 

Yes Amira (over priced camera) will sell like hot cakes. It will be a nice evolution of the F5, affordable for the rich productions. It's another philosophy than what RED's is doing : bringing the best technology to the market at best price. The perfect camera don't exist and there are a lot of talk going on on REDUSER about a new camera design as the Dragon sensor is out now. But there is no way some one can tell me "Epic is not a tool that a docu can be shot on".

 

I really want that the sound mixer gets the best audio experience on set as he is telling the story with me. Therefore I decided to create the FanPlate.

 

I'm not an Epic owner. I'll never buy a camera body as I don't want to push the production to rent my equipment. I use a Bolex, an Arri SR3, Gopro, a 5D, an Epic if it is what the project needs. I've never felt the need to use an Alexa.

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I would love to see Amira's on set. If it's "similar" looking to the Alexa, then wow. I would think some shows would like the quicker work flow of the Amira's file format, and it shoots on CF cards instead of proprietary Red cards. I realize that's probably because it's not 4k or 5k, but any TV I do (so far) isn't keeping that footage at 4k for long. 

It's kind of funny that some people are balking at their price, when a few years ago many shows were using an F900, or something of a comparable price tag. 

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marc: " an ideal combination for high-end HD ENG shooters, "

as ENG means NEWS, I don't suspect that these cameras will be seen much, even for "Network News", as the trends there are for lower costs...

in which case they wouldn't be high end. But lower costs can also be achieved by spending more on gear while saving on servicing costs, manpower, and so on
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Constantin: " by spending more on gear while saving on servicing costs, manpower, and so on "

well, over here, the hi-end ENG is typically broadcast network news, and the major cable news networks, and while they are already saving on servicing costs, and manpower, they are also not spending that much more on gear when they can avoid it...

guess we shall see...

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Have you had any trouble shooting a 3 hour take on the Epic?

 

Yes. I've seen them shut down and overheat well before half an hour. I've been on locations where we could never get the camera to successfully roll longer than 20 minutes. My experience is identical to Tom's above.

 

On the other hand: realistically, how often do you need to shoot longer than 20 minutes? We certainly could never do it with film (unless you count 2000-foot film magazines shooting 30 minutes of 3-perf 35mm). 

 

But what I say about the intended market for Amira is still true. I wouldn't do a live broadcast with a Red Epic. With an Amira... sure, it's possible. (And Sony was using their F55's for live broadcast yesterday on the Superbowl here in America.)

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If I were a camera operator and had to buy several extra accessories and new fans just to make it work for me, I probably would just look to the Amira. The Alexa was such a huge success and used everywhere with great results. So the Amira would probably be as good..

I'm glad you make your camera work for you and it really makes me happy that you're really trying to make the epic a better camera for us guys. But still, I want a camera to just work from the get go rather than having to ask for fan plate, pro i/o module for timecode and xlr, and rigs that can accommodate receivers and timecode boxes and whatnot...

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  • 1 month later...

I just spent some face time with one of the AMIRA prototypes, and an ARRI VP;

the imager system is pretty much the same as the ALEXA (sorry, only 2K), and the audio is substantially the same as well...

there is an LCD screen for meters and menus with navigation controls on the left side of the AMIRA, and the audio 3 XLR's and their hard selection switches are on the right side.  along with other video (etc.) connectors, there are (Ambient) TC in and out BNC's.

The HD monitor unit is required to operate the camera, as that is where most menu functions are done, not the side LCD which is mostly for audio/TC

also, the little antennae at the rear, where the battery goes are not for us, they are for WiFi and other camera stuff.

The three XLR's are 2 x XLR-3 and 1 x XLR-5; and the selections are mic-PH-line on #1 (ch-1) and Mic-PH-Line-AES on #2 (ch 2) and #3 (ch3+4). While this prototype (1 of 3, I was told) makes pictures, the audio menus are not fully functional yet; expect a lot more functionality implemented on the one(es) they have at NAB next week...

Edited by studiomprd
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  • 4 months later...

I look forward to working with the the Amira, although I wish Arri would make up its mind about TC connectors (now back to BNC, not Lemo).  Audio still seems problematic but on nearly all the Arri work I've done camera audio has been sync ref only.  Re RED….well, I've been burned by those cameras more times than all the other models of video cameras I've worked with put together.  Audio, sync, noise, TC, connectors, menu structure, accessories….   I work with Dragon a fair amount now but it's always with far more trepidation than with any other camera.  The jungle-doco rig shown above looks lean and mean, but the cameras on the gigs I do are far more accessorized, which with RED is always more of a hassle than with any pro camera that isn't a DSLR.

 

philp

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Just did a 4 Amira job.  TC is solid via BNC and the legendary Ambient System, although would recommend Lockit or Zaxcom trix cuz of the occasional off speed gags.  The 5 pin/3pin routing to 4 tracks is nicely done.  Quality reviews via QuickTime and Wave Agent are acceptable... my golden ears are a bit worn out, not that I ever had golden ears.  Audio display/controls are on operators side...... slap him a couple times and you'll get your way.  Do rehearse the panel before battle tho. We shall see a lot of this camera.

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