Tom Craca Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 I have a 1604 VLZ Pro. I need to use the inserts as direct outputs (no signal interruption) All my cables are Tip-Ring-Sleeve and I don't want the unreliability of a one-click insert. I don't have time to make up new cables. Can I use a 1/4" Mono - Stereo Adapter (i.e. http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-GPP-419-Female-4-Inch-Adapter/dp/B001JYSMV0) fully inserted into each insert jack and then fully insert my Tip-Ring-Sleeve cables into that? Will the adapter combine the send and return, thus allowing the signal to pass back into the channel path on the board, and then send the signal (direct) on the tip of my cable fully plugged into the mono female jack on the adapter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 give it a try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crussell Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 I believe "right" way to do the insert as direct out hack is to make the cables you need. Mackie is tip- send, ring- return, sleeve-ground. If you tie tip and ring, you'll effectively split the signal. If you have time to order adapters in, why not just make the cables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Hosa makes a TRS breakout to 2 mono TS.. Find those.. That is what I used to DO of inserts.. Worked perfectly.. No channel interpretation. Basically you will have return cable hanging but its a quick solution and easily had at your local guitar center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Craca Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 I believe "right" way to do the insert as direct out hack is to make the cables you need. Mackie is tip- send, ring- return, sleeve-ground. If you tie tip and ring, you'll effectively split the signal. If you have time to order adapters in, why not just make the cables? I think that adapter will effectively "tie" the tip and ring giving me the desired effect. Just wanted to make sure I'm thinking about this right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 as suggested: give it a try... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Done it many times, esp in a pinch. Here's a trick that saved our ass on the live "Oil and Water" shoot last summer: get a bag of 1/4" hex nuts from the hardware store. Drop them over your TRS snake plugs, tape them on with paper tape. Now plug into the inserts. With Mackie wired inserts (ring is send) the tip of your connector will engage the part of the jack meant for the ring, but the sleeve will still have ground contact--you've just shortened the plug, but have not interrupted the signal flow of the FOH (or whatever) console. This works very well, BUT you need to keep people away from the connections and support the weight of the snake so it won't unplug itself. If you are going to do this alot a custom snake would be a good idea. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crussell Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 I think that adapter will effectively "tie" the tip and ring giving me the desired effect. Just wanted to make sure I'm thinking about this right. I think you are. I just still have nightmares about some of the rigs I've had to use, hacked together with cheap adapters. If you can find the time, I'd make the connections with molten metal and quality wire. You can reuse the 1/4" connectors on another project when this one's over, they're highly reusable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Craca Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Here's another hair brained idea... what if I just take a 12 channel XLR to 1/4" TRS snake and either a: solder the tip & rings together on the TRS jacks to send the signal back into the insert, or b: just cut off the tips so that the fully inserted jacks only engage the send? It might be safer and quieter to not engage the return ( option b ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Just get a snake with mono 1/4" and insert them part way. Did it for years with no problems. Why over complicate something so simple and inexpensive? It was designed to work a certain way. Just do it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Get rid of the mackie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Craca Posted December 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 Rob... I hate the one click idea. Makes me nervous with cables moving. Tom... I agree but rarely use it. This is just a rare situation where I need the benefit of fader control, 1-8 going through a Lectro AM8, 3 other sources for a mixdown track, and I still want iso's of all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted December 14, 2013 Report Share Posted December 14, 2013 >Get rid of the mackie. < Tom, be nice. (Yes it did made me laugh) al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Radlauer Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 >Get rid of the mackie. < Tom, be nice. (Yes it did made me laugh) al Lol Tom IS being nice! ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 For one job, the one click thing works fine--I've done this on a great many live-concert recordings--no problems. If this is going to be a regular thing for you, then a custom snake is a good idea. I was all set to make one finally (for FOH consoles with only inserts and no direct outs) when the shift to digital boards happened and now many consoles have neither inserts or direct outs. There's nothing wrong with a Mackie if you know what you're doing. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I had "one click" in my mixer for several movies, one if which had me dragging my gear around the former Soviet Republic of Georgia. It's no big deal. And it's no big deal using a Mackie either. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Martin Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I also did this on a film and a few live stream type of jobs with my own 1604 as well as countless times interfacing with venues FOH consoles. No issues. Applying some sort of strain relief to your snake is a good idea. It's really not as finicky as it sounds. Also keep in mind, some Mackies that do have direct outs are actually post fader (and not selectable), so I those situations an unused send is probably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I have an gen. 1 1620 Onyx. Don't use it that often but it sounds good. Four pre/post aux. sends, pre fader direct outs via a DB25 connector and other output options. An internal Firewire card could be used as well, which I don't have nor a DC mod so AC power is necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 15, 2013 Report Share Posted December 15, 2013 I've used the direct outs on twomovies and as Robert says they work just fine and have never budged even during some rough location moves. Use as directed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 I also did this on a film and a few live stream type of jobs with my own 1604 as well as countless times interfacing with venues FOH consoles. No issues. Applying some sort of strain relief to your snake is a good idea. It's really not as finicky as it sounds. Also keep in mind, some Mackies that do have direct outs are actually post fader (and not selectable), so I those situations an unused send is probably better. The newer Onyx models do have prefade direct outs. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 My earlier reply was a bit tongue in cheek. We live in a time where electronics design has the advantage of learning from past engineers designs, incorporating them in cheaper, smaller, cooler, integrated packages. Today's Mackie, Presonus, and even (gulp) Behringer gear has equal or better sonic performance (quantitative) than many / most past mixers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted December 16, 2013 Report Share Posted December 16, 2013 " some Mackies that do have direct outs are actually post fader" - Yes, the VLZ series 16+ channel series had post fader direct outs. All the Onyx series direct outs are pre fader and pre EQ. (including the HPF unfortunately) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sound Art Film Posted April 9, 2014 Report Share Posted April 9, 2014 Onyx 1620, inserts are post HPF. Recording outs are pre HPF (DB25). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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