Maxx vs 633

[RadoStefanov]

 

Disclaimer:

I am a long  time Sound Devices user but switched to Zaxcom 2 years ago. I personally like zaxcom’s design philosophy and constant innovation so if you feel that my review is biased keep in mind that my opinions are based on my personal needs and preferences. What works for me might not be what other people need or  like.

                                                                       

First of all I never liked the 788t recorder even though I owned one. It was a power hog, got extremely hot and was freezing, spew RF garbage, the meters were not as good as 744t and the cl8 knobs were so soft that a small accidental touch would turn them by significant and noticeable amount. I always however loved SD mixers – mixpre, 302, 442 and 552. When the 552 came out I was very excited about the form factor - stereo recording and the ability to stamp external time code. Even though it had bugs in the beginning I was a satisfied 552 user. But I still had to add 744t to the 552. I remember few years back arguing on this forum against having a mixer and a recorder in the same bag. Why not have both in one unit. Why not have 552 with 5 iso recording , time code generator and a lcd screen. Why break my back and use a lot of batteries??

 

664 vs 663

                                                                        664

When the 664 came out I was surprised how close it was to my prediction.  I worked with the 664 and while it got the job done there were many things that bothered me:

Size “it was shocking the first time I laid my hands on it”

Screen was unreadable outdoors

I never cared for variable low cut and pan knobs “not needed for our work but very necessary for recording music” 

The Joystick   “I can’t seriously imagine anybody would prefer the joystick over push buttons”

 

But apart from the minor complaints the 664 was a positive advancement over the 788t. It left however people wanting a smaller device. Something like the 302 with Time code and recording.

That is where the 663 comes. Or I taught it did…

                                                                        633

It is a great concept. The last 4 years changed the production landscape. ENG cameras were replaced by DSLRs and simple mixers had to be replaced by recorders. I have done corporate events with my Nomad and a boom working alongside Canon 5d.  A total overkill for one channel boom recording.

At first the 633 looks appealing:

Smaller size

Lite

The screen seams a lot better then the 664 screen. It is a lot more visible in different viewing angles.  “I did not spend a lot of time outside but if my observations are true Sound Devices should replace the 664 screen with 633 screen free of charge if possible”

Internal power that closes the recording when there is a power issue. “another important option that has to be implemented in the 664 ASAP”

Output delay

 I was generally impressed with the unit when I saw it online but then I put my hands on the front panel!!! THE CLUTTER IS STUNNING. My hands and fingers are not huge but I felt like Andre The Giant. All knobs are so close together. The channel 4 5 and 6 are almost touching 1 2 and 3. I can not see myself being able to control my levels if the 4 5 and 6 are not pushed in all the time. Especially when in our line of work we reach down without looking.

Then comes the menu. It is overwhelming. Finding different options buried in different menus takes time. There was a 664 user present who had difficult time digging for options in the menu.

 

Conclusion

If Zaxcom did not exist and I had to choose between 633 and 664 I would go with the 664.

Here is why:

Even though Size and the wellbeing of my back is extremely important, I can not justify picking the 633 over the 664.

Front panel clutter on the 633. It is so poorly designed that I would consider it as 3 channel only recorder.

Price. I rather spend $4600 for 664 then $3100 for 633. IMHO Sound Devices made a mistake with the 633. They should have made 3 channel unit with less front menu clutter and easier menu in the $2000 price range.

 

 

                                                                        633 VS MAXX

I already pointed out the shortcomings of the 633. In comparison Maxx  has :

clean innovative front panel with a 4^th full size knob

push buttons for pfl, recording and many quick options like   bus routing and channel setup

Routing matrix for input output and headphone mixes

Fader assign

Easy note and track names preset system

Different  screen views

Autogain “ one of my favorite zaxcom option” saves a lot of real estate on the front panrl

MARF – even though 633 has internal power that closes a recording in a power failure “ which is a lot better then how other SD recorders would just loose an entire take” it would not help in any other situations like system freeze or general hardware/ software malfunction

Easy to use menu

Better screen

Smaller size

Integrated wireless hop and Time code transmission to QRX100qifb

smart side panel lay out

Time Code slate on the screen.

Easy way to control channel 5 and 6 with VFaders

                                                                        633

The only impressive thing that 633 has and maxx doesn’t is the output delays. Zaxnet however deals with delays with the ifb receivers. There might be other advantages over maxx  that people find useful! So if I missing something is because i missed it or dont find it important.

 

                                                                        How do 633 and Maxx sound

We setup a microphone splitter and listened simultaneously to both.

Now this is where NeverClip and  maxx preamps really shine. I was able to ride the gain a lot without hearing the artifacts of the limiter kicking in on the 633. It is a general practice to have input limiters of on Zaxcom NeverClip devices.

As far as sound both 633 and Maxx sound great. The main difference is the way they sound.

Maxx sounds very defined. The transparency and clarity of the signal is very different from the colored mids and undefined highs of the 633. I personally prefer to capture the sound in the purest possible way. I am not recording music or singing. I am recording a human speaking or natural environment sound. Listening with the headphones and without the headphones, Maxx was a lot more true to the original sound in my ears.

I don’t know if the headphone amps have a role in this test but to my ears maxx pres combined with NeverClip just sound purer and have a lot more definition and dynamic range.

I even feel like Maxx Pres sound better then Nomad Pres. I don’t know if they are different design or exactly the same as Nomad, but  I feel a slight improvement.

Again keep in mind :

I am a long  time Sound Devices user but switched to Zaxcom 2 years ago. I personally like zaxcom’s design philosophy and constant innovation so if you feel that my review is biased keep in mind that my opinions are based on my personal needs and preferences. What works for me might not be what other people need or  like.       

[soundslikejustin]

When does your cheque arrive?

[Boomboom]

[RadoStefanov]

Your accusations are wrong.

I have no affiliation with Zaxcom. I pay full price for my zaxcom gear from Trew Audio Los Angeles.

Zaxcom have contacted me in the past with questions about improvements but I am not the only one. Check the Zaxcom forum and you will see a lot of people are involved in the development of their products. A lot of people come up with some great Ideas. I am sure none of them are on the payroll.

[pampasound]

663, 603, 306 or 636?

[Audio Daddyo]

Ahem! It's a 633 not a 663.

[pampasound]

Ah!!..I got it. Now i understand!

[Philip Perkins]

Well, I disagree with almost all of your points, esp about clutter, usability, sound, sound file making, reporting, intiuitiveness of menu structure screen readibility (have you used  a 664 since the new screen updates?)  and so on, so there you go I guess.  The TC on screen thing is pretty useless to me, I would never be able to get shooters to look for me and my little screen for TC these days.  I don't like the concept of the built in hop--I want more flexibility in how that equipment is deployed.  If the 633 did not have the 3 small channel faders on the front for 4-6 I would not be interested-I don't like virtual faders.   So far it seems like the 633 is a big success, even with the Maxx and Nomad available.  They are all great choices, and we don't work in a one-size-fits-all manner these days.  Many folks have had great working experiences w/ the Zax recorders, I'm doing pretty ok with my SD stuff, thanks.

 

philp

[Ze Frias]

Uh oh, watch this become a heated discussion.

 

All points aside, I, as a Zaxcom user (who also extensively used Sound Devices before switching), personally think that the 664 (and the 633, which follows on the 664's footsteps) have a simpler and easier user interface / menu structure than that of a Nomad / Maxx.

 

What I personally enjoy about the Zaxcom products is their integration with each other.

 

Everyone will find that each mixer/recorder will fit their needs differently.

[Brent Lestage]

Well, I am of the opposite opinion of Rado's with regard to the 633 vs Maxx. I happen to agree with Philip's [Perkins] less than stellar assessment of the Maxx's control layout, built-in wireless hop and virtual fader employment. I much prefer the build quality of the 633 over Maxx and feel that the 633's menu system is more intuitive and faster to access. As for joystick vs dual-function buttons, I prefer the joystick. It has never failed or gone into record mode accidentally on either of the SD products I've owned (552; 664). Lastly, the small push-in line level input pots (4,5,6) on the 633 are easy to use (mainly for additional wireless) and I have rather large hands and fingers.

As a matter of course, I don't buy the argument that the Maxx sounds better than the 633, as there are too many variables to colour one's opinion. If you told me that you listened to the same EXACT recording of the EXACT same performance using the EXACT same input devices and then played back both examples of each recording device via a separate post-audio system in an anechoic chamber, then I might listen to your argument. Even then, it's purely subjective.

Thanks for the photo size-comparison, however!

[jrd456]

In the early days, Zaxcom had a bad reputation to some old timers because they used there customers to find the bugs on new products instead of spending the time and money for testing and were not very responsive----this is what I've heard.

 

                                             J.D.

[justanross]

Sound Devices had the 633 in stores on the day they announced it. That's impressive in my books.

[RadoStefanov]

Well, I am of the opposite opinion of Rado's with regard to the 633 vs Maxx. I happen to agree with Philip's [Perkins] less than stellar assessment of the Maxx's control layout, built-in wireless hop and virtual fader employment. I much prefer the build quality of the 633 over Maxx and feel that the 633's menu system is more intuitive and faster to access. As for joystick vs dual-function buttons, I prefer the joystick. It has never failed or gone into record mode accidentally on either of the SD products I've owned (552; 664). Lastly, the small push-in line level input pots (4,5,6) on the 633 are easy to use (mainly for additional wireless) and I have rather large hands and fingers.

As a matter of course, I don't buy the argument that one unit sounds better than the other, as there are too many variables. If you told me that you listened to the same EXACT recording of the EXACT same performance using the EXACT same input devices and then played back both examples of each recording device via a separate post-audio system in an anechoic chamber and one sounded better than the other, I could provide you with several other 'experts' that would all disagree with your (and each other's) findings!

Thanks for the photo size-comparison, however!

You are right.As I mentioned in the review we only listened to the sound straight out of the box.I have not listened to recordings on my Post system. it might be that Maxx has a better headphone monitoring that makes it sound better then 633 in the box.

But definitely maxx sounds better when bypassing its limiters "thanks to No Clip" compared to the limiter artifacts of the 633

[RadoStefanov]

Well, I disagree with almost all of your points, esp about clutter, usability, sound, sound file making, reporting, intiuitiveness of menu structure screen readibility (have you used a 664 since the new screen updates?) and so on, so there you go I guess. The TC on screen thing is pretty useless to me, I would never be able to get shooters to look for me and my little screen for TC these days. I don't like the concept of the built in hop--I want more flexibility in how that equipment is deployed. If the 633 did not have the 3 small channel faders on the front for 4-6 I would not be interested-I don't like virtual faders. So far it seems like the 633 is a big success, even with the Maxx and Nomad available. They are all great choices, and we don't work in a one-size-fits-all manner these days. Many folks have had great working experiences w/ the Zax recorders, I'm doing pretty ok with my SD stuff, thanks.

philp

different people different needs.

[old school]

Nixon/Kennedy, Chevy/Ford, Coke/Smack, I mean Coke/Pepsi.... What does it matter? If you like one thing over another, it means you like it for whatever your thought process is...    I wish all the whiners of minutia could go back in time and see what the tools were like 1, 2, 3 decades back. Our job is the same now as it was then. Make each shot sound like it looks. The tools of today are so much more powerful it is hard to imagine the difference for those who were not there. Personally I find that the competition aspect of these discussions miss the main point of sound mixing, which is making it all work for you to do the job at hand. There is not but a dimes worth of difference between the 2 recorders in the OP at the end of the day. A good Sound Person can make either recorder do what's needed for 99% of the shots out there. Personally I'm more interested in a problem solved than what button you pushed on your recorder.

CrewC

[justanross]

Nixon/Kennedy, Chevy/Ford, Coke/Smack, I mean Coke/Pepsi.... What does it matter? If you like one thing over another, it means you like it for whatever your thought process is... I wish all the whiners of minutia could go back in time and see what the tools were like 1, 2, 3 decades back. Our job is the same now as it was then. Make each shot sound like it looks. The tools of today are so much more powerful it is hard to imagine the difference for those who were not there. Personally I find that the competition aspect of these discussions miss the main point of sound mixing, which is making it all work for you to do the job at hand. There is not but a dimes worth of difference between the 2 recorders in the OP at the end of the day. A good Sound Person can make either recorder do what's needed for 99% of the shots out there. Personally I'm more interested in a problem solved than what button you pushed on your recorder.

CrewC

Yah...but what's your favorite color for a recorder?

[MorgyD]

I like the 633, but I'm starting to wonder about build quality.

I'm on my second 633 and about to send it back as channel 4 no longer works.

Hopefully third time lucky with the next 633?

[Jack Norflus]

In the early days, Zaxcom had a bad reputation

I have to agree with this. And it was this feeling that kept me away from buying their products.

 

But several years ago the QRX was just about to come out and I needed a new camera hop I was very intrigued with Zaxcom's system. I spoke to many people - users, dealers, Glenn directly and even started a thread here. Even after all my due diligence I was still concerned about reliability and build quality and customer service. But I did feel comfortable enough to purchase the system. 

 

Several years later my first piece of Zaxcom gear is still going strong with no reliability, build quality, or even customer service issues. Any question I had or software suggestions I though of was answered promptly and directly by Glenn. Since then I have added many more pieces of Zaxcom equipment to my arsenal and, this may come as a shock to you, I have even become a big proponent for Zaxcom. 

 

I think the issue with build quality, reliability and customer service was an issue for Zaxcom in the early days - but I truly feel that is no longer the case. But unfortunately the stigma is still there. 

[old school]

Yah...but what's your favorite color for a recorder?

Green as in the $$$ making part of my system.

CrewC

[TimPitot]

this may come as a shock to you, I have even become a big proponent for Zaxcom.

We hadn't noticed.

[TimPitot]

ps. What is the point of this thread?

[soundslikejustin]

ps. What is the point of this thread?

exactly.

[VASI]

To be fair with Rado. He put his thought (I hope the grammar will be ok) and opinion about recorders. I would like to hear more opinions about "how it sounds" rather than features.

 

- Frequency response, different microphones, noise, accuracy etc.

- Only for Maxx or Nomad review. Not comparison with other competitor.

 

I hope to read comments about performance, rather than general comment like "it's great".

 

Best

V

[soundslikejustin]

To be fair with Rado. He put his thought (I hope the grammar will be ok) and opinion about recorders. I would like to hear more opinions about "how it sounds" rather than features.

 

- Frequency response, different microphones, noise, accuracy etc.

- Only for Maxx or Nomad review. Not comparison with other competitor.

 

I hope to read comments about performance, rather than general comment like "it's great".

 

Best

V

Does it matter? How does it sound to you? Is it easy to use for you?

This thread should not have been set up to be yet another comparison between competing products, and then go on to claim an immediate victor. Rado could have written something along the lines of 'why I love Maxx', and forgone the negative comments about the other brand, most of which are highly personal/subjective.

eg:

 

663 VS MAXX

clean innovative front panel with a 4^th full size knob - some could say lacking in necessary controls

push buttons for pfl, recording and many quick options like   bus routing and channel setup - some would say the channel setup and routing on the 633 is just as fast.

Routing matrix for input output and headphone mixes - 633 has this too

Fader assign - no need, there's a fader for every input on the 633

Easy note and track names preset system - yep, same on the 633

Different  screen views - yep, same on the 633

Autogain “ one of my favorite zaxcom option” saves a lot of real estate on the front panrl - AutoTrim is a good idea, well executed, 633 uses almost a similar idea for the trims on 4, 5 and 6...in fact you can raise the trim WITHOUT affecting the fader like you would using AutoTrim.

MARF – even though 663 has internal power that closes a recording in a power failure “ which is a lot better then how other SD recorders would just loose an entire take (highly personal and speculative)” it would not help in any other situations like system freeze or general hardware/ software malfunction

Easy to use menu - The menu on the 633 is very easy, well laid out.

Better screen - subjective

Smaller size - by an inch or so...

Integrated wireless hop and Time code transmission to QRX100qifb -  That doesn't make it superior, just different.

smart side panel lay out - 633 is well laid out

Time Code slate on the screen - personally, I would NEVER use this.

Easy way to control channel 5 and 6 with VFaders - easy way to control 4, 5, and 6 with actual faders.

[VASI]

We say the same thing Justin.