dominiquegreffard Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Did a gig yday where i realized after the day started that the camera had an external recorder on it. And that the timecode on camera did not represent what was actually recorded so video tc was way off my audio tc. It was no biggie since we had good scatch audio on camera and we used my tc slate but it could have been easily avoided.. It was a pretty stupid mistake from my part and i warn other mixers to double check what media is recording. I m gonna get all senatorized on this one but i don t care. I wanna share my experience and warn mixers to double check before starting to roll what media end up being used. Merry christmas y'all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisnewton Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 thanks Dominique. I wasn't aware of that potential problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 On a matter of principle, I would consider this the responsibility of the camera dept. Of course, it's a team thing and we try to help as much as we can, but it's not always possible. I try to read the manual (the TC section anyway) of the camera for the next shoot so I know what to watch out for, but sometimes they suddenly have a different cam, or old firmware or whatever. But it's up to the AC to be able to make the relevant settings and also to put the TC box onto the proper recording device. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 Similar "funny" story: I did one where a PIX was attached to a Sony F5. Having jammed an F5 previously to find it drift several seconds in as little as a couple of hours, I figured this would work great, Jammed the PIX, but according to the client's tech, "since the PIX is controlled by the camera's play, stop, record it will default back to the camera's TC". From what I gather from the PIX manual, this should not be the case if set to free run. However, after the PIX confirmed that TC was successfully jammed, the TC on it's display did not match my recorder so I thought OK then, the tech's right. So we decided to forget the TC and go with the scratch track and slate. ---- Only to find out later that the TC displayed on the PIX screen was the F5's..... DOH!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 The PIX has a very versatile timecode section. There's no one method fits all answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 19, 2013 Report Share Posted December 19, 2013 we can do our best, due diligence and all, but the camera and its image recorder are not ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonG Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 I have found that in cases like this, using a lockit box will keep the camera TC in sync as well as the pix (as long as you have it set to receive TC from the camera), otherwise jam sync the pix as well. Ive been on many shoots where we have used a pix with various cameras, and this seems to be a good method. It gets difficult when they want to use multiple non TC cameras with non TC recorders like the Ninja, and expect to have professional sync results like when using TC. Dumb slate and scratch track become your only options, but depending upon how many cameras there are might make it difficult. Believe me, Ive been in some ridiculous situations, and I cant rightfully tell you what the client was thinking or expected, I just tried to make sure they slated everything correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 Unless a workflow has been previously tested, I basically make it understood that I will provide a timecode source and the camera department can do whatever they want with it. There are just too many variables on the camera side of things (and none of them really have much to do with getting clean useable sound tracks) for a PSM to try and manage (and take responsibility for) them all. It's one thing to conduct a proper workflow test, and establish protocol before production starts... beyond that, I would (politely) explain that all bets are off, and that while all best efforts will be made to accommodate the needs of the production, the PSM will not become anyone's punching bag over untested timecode "issues" that arise due to a lack of planning or forethought... (sorry, just edited this after realizing I went off on a huge tangent.) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nysounds Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 + 1 for Lockit's. I put them on and go about my job. I do try to check throughout the day to make sure all is still good. If I show up and it's all 5d's or C100's then then it's all about the slating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 I was doing a shoot with an F-5 a few months ago. They were recording on a Ninja, or a Samurai? Whichever one of the Atomos recorders has SDI Inputs. The box was getting timecode from the camera. So I jammed to the camera and walked away. As far as I could tell, and as far as DIT could tell. Sync was fine all day. I only rejammed on camera battery changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 6, 2014 Report Share Posted January 6, 2014 The Atomos Samurai gets time code from the camera via the HD-SDI stream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted March 3, 2014 Report Share Posted March 3, 2014 I like the fact that a new word has been coined: senatorized. Hah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted March 4, 2014 Report Share Posted March 4, 2014 Did a gig yday where i realized after the day started that the camera had an external recorder on it. And that the timecode on camera did not represent what was actually recorded so video tc was way off my audio tc. It was no biggie since we had good scatch audio on camera and we used my tc slate but it could have been easily avoided.. As long as the timecode has an exact predictable offset throughout the entire day, it's not the end of the world. Post can fix that (with some grumbling). What I usually try to do is have them hold up the timecode slate and make sure it's within a second, looking right through the viewfinder. Most of the cameras don't look exactly in sync until the camera goes into record, but I do keep half an eye out on it all day, just in case. My take is: I gave them the sync box, I jammed the slate myself, the sound recorder timecode is good... therefore I did my job. Once the box is on the camera, it's up to them to check it. On the rare occasions I get a phone call, I always ask, "is the slate right?" It always is, so I say, "well, beyond actually operating the camera, I'm not sure what more I can do beyond checking the first take of the day, since they run the camera, not me." I'm not quite this aggressive, but I know a terrific LA colorist who once reamed out an editor on the phone for bothering him over an offset issue like this, and he drily told the guy, "if you like, I can come over to your office and sync up all the files for you. I could probably do a first pass on the edit, too." Only the idiots expect this process to be 100% easy and automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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