Heavy Playback Editing on Set

[Alex Altman]

Hi all, Happy Holidays.

 

I am working on the next season of Drunk History coming up in March. It's a reenactment show where actors are lip-syncing to a history lesson as told by a very drunk person who was filmed previously interview style. It's going to be two months of playback. I wasn't part of filming the drunken "interviews" unfortunately. In the first season, they were dong simple playback with no editing. Now, they want Pro Tools for the ability to alter the story and timing on set.

 

I have worked on many many music videos, dialogue scenes with playback, pre-records, and other types of playback. I consider myself to be fairly competent with playback (Pro Tools or otherwise) in general. However, I have never worked on anything that will involve so much potential editing on set, and two months of it at that. I am trying to imagine if there is a workflow for this show that doesn't involve recording each take? It seems to me that recording would be the most straight forward with possible nudging/deleting/rearranging from take to take. Cue Senator....

 

Since the job is far away and I haven't had any discussions with post yet, I thought I would pose the scenario to the group and see if anyone else has experience with a show like this. Ideas or advice?

 

Thanks in advance!

[old school]

What are you going to record Alex? The actors version of the drunk or the edited playback track you create on set? Or both I suppose could be the answer. Are you feeding it to a Digital Camera? Hard to give a good answer without more info. I've done a lot of wild protools playback that involved a lot of editing. I took the PB Trk from say channel one and used the pieces of dialog wanted and copy and pasted them to say track 2 and created the new PB track on #2. That way the original and all the edited tracks/versions were preserved for post. Not sure this is the info you want or if it's at all useful but I do know you will become a wiz at editing in PT. Best of luck.

CrewC

[ccsnd]

I have done something very similar, several times.

 

Here is my advice to you - 

 

You probably won't record a single word

 

You HAVE to know your hot keys or it's going to be a miserable experience.  Make sure your PT chops are as good as you can get them!  

[Joshua Anderson]

Putting your edits on a new track, Crew suggested, or in a new session is a very good way to start. Don't be destructive on your only copy.

 

I can see where a recording of the live actors could help editorial in placing or positioning the pre-recorded (drunk) audio. That onset recording could be a scratch, but should be handled by someone else in your department, not you as the playback operator. 

 

Also...if they're wanting Pro Tools to alter the timing on set (and not in the cut), I would be ready/wary that they'll want various cue points for you to jump to in relation to onscreen action. Not just re-editing the pre-recorded vocals in between takes.

 

Josh

[ccsnd]

Putting your edits on a new track, Crew suggested, or in a new session is a very good way to start. Don't be destructive on your only copy.

 

I usually use a playlist.

[soundpod]

I worked on a feature where we used protools for playback. And it seemed like a very fragile system to be using on location.

That was a few years ago now, using a Digi 00something FireWire interface and it just wasn't suited to the rough and tumble of location.

I don't know how it is with protools now, but if it was me i would be looking for the most robust setup needed to fulfill the job (which may well be protools)

[old school]

I've used protools on insert cars on rough roads, locations, and stage. Never had an issue with it holding up to the task. Maybe I'm lucky or soundpod was less lucky. Not sure of any other system that would be more robust.

CrewC

[soundpod]

I think I just find FireWire connections to be fragile. it only takes once or twice to loose confidence.

[Alex Altman]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. Sorry I didn't include more information in the beginning!

 

First, for Pro Tools on location: I have a solid state, 12V powered "Hackintosh" that I built for location use. Pro Tools runs fine on it and it's rugged enough. 

 

Crew, the "recording" of playback I mentioned was referring to recording each playback take as has been discussed in previous playback discussions. Recording each take as if it were a scene that contained playback and live dialogue. In this instance though, all the lines for lip-sync have been recorded in a long (drunken) interview style session. The audio from that interview is chopped up and turned into a 9 minute story that is then reenacted at a later time with actors lip-syncing to several lines of the story for comedic effect. All the interview shoots were done last month and I wasn't a part of the production then. I am just getting hired for the reenactment portion that starts in March. No recording of any lines will be required on set, as all of the "dialogue" comes from the drunken interview. The playback tracks will be handed to me in advance, and then the editing will take place throughout the shoot to adjust timing, etc.

 

Keeping all the edits in the same Pro Tools session makes a lot of sense.

 

It will be a digital shoot (probably Epic), but they haven't settled on the camera yet. Having the scratch track on camera will definitely be essential! Keeping all the edits in the same session makes a lot of sense. I guess I am thinking more about problems that could arise in the workflow from having so many possible edits on set per setup, per scene, per story, and how to keep that all organized and communicated to post. Of course, there could be minimal editing as well if all the prepared tracks just happen to "work" on the day. I'm preparing for the most complicated situation I suppose. 

 

Josh, that's a good idea with recording scratch vocals from the actors, but I've already been told there will be absolutely no dialogue recording on the reenactment set. Doing nothing destructive in Pro Tools is a great point!

 

Thanks again guys!

[old school]

Seems to me the scratch track to camera becomes most important to all variations of your playback if you don't re record the track with the time of day TC the camera is or could get from you. As for post, I'd just bounce down all your variations and send them down the line. I hope you have a good time and make a lot of $$$

CrewC

[studiomprd]

Alex: " I have never worked on anything that will involve so much potential editing on set, and two months of it at that. "

echoing other comments about your PT chops, etc, I wonder if this is a gig for you..?

of course we all like to score a good long term gig at a good rate, but sometimes we also have to realize that you could find yourself replaced before you get good enough at it, if it is something beyond your comfort zone.

 

soundpod: " a very fragile system to be using on location. "

PT is software, and the formerly required hardware had no moving parts, so I would disagree with this comment...

[Philip Perkins]

PT on location, or any DAW app is as fragile as your system is.  As with any computer dedicated to an on-set mission critical task, make the machine lean and mean, ie don't use your personal computer with all your music, pix, email, taxes, etc etc and the apps for those things on it.  Make sure as little as possible is running in the BG.  After that, you just have to make sure you have good copies of everything you do, (pref in a separate folder or even a separate BU drive), breathe deep and don't let them rush you when you are doing fiddly edits and comps.  If you are doing complex clip-skipping playbacks in response to talent performance then you need to rehearse just like the talent and the camera etc does, pref. all together at the same time.

 

philp

[Constantin]

soundpod: " a very fragile system to be using on location. "

PT is software, and the formerly required hardware had no moving parts, so I would disagree with this comment...

The moving part here would be (as mentioned by Soundpod) the Firewire plug losing its connection to the computer. So it can be fragile.

But maybe there is another interface connection available or maybe the stress on a computer sitting on a cart isn't that intense

[ccsnd]

I've run a PT playback cart based around a 003 for several years.  It's on a dedicated computer, and all of my cables have been locked down.

 

It's never let me down.

 

The 003 is a firewire device.

 

Put it together correctly, there will be nothing to worry about.

[old school]

I've run a PT playback cart based around a 003 for several years.  It's on a dedicated computer, and all of my cables have been locked down.

 

It's never let me down.

 

The 003 is a firewire device.

 

Put it together correctly, there will be nothing to worry about.

Yep.  Hey anything can happen it life but....  

In LA video assist world they run 2 camera CueTake systems on lap tops mac' & towers. It is not that weak a link really. Operator skill set is the main factor for doing the job at hand.  As for Alex, I'd go cut n paste and edit and play with PT and resolve your questions before the shoot. Also talk to post. Best of luck and all that that involves.

CrewC

CrewC

[Philip Perkins]

Many of the non-PT alternatives for playback are mono/stereo 1 track only apps, with the sort of editing that Audacity does (ie, after an edit is made the clip boundaries disappear).   (Wavesaur, Sound Studio, the 2 track Sound Forge).  This has been ok for simple stuff, but when things get complex with many versions of many files then more tracks is a help.  I've never been a fan of ProTools (long story), and have taken to using Reaper for MT location playback and edit work.  Reaper is very cheap, works with anything and I've found it far easier to learn and get around on than PT, at least for what I do.  NO dongle.   Is running very well on an oldie laptop I had just sitting around.  On the big shows I can see everyone wanting to send you PT sessions (and then you hope you have the right setup to open them...), but no one so far has ever wanted to send me anything but files, so the other apps work fine.

 

philp

[JonG]

I think either save a new session for each edit variation, and call it whatever you are slating it as, or use playlists. Basically, you'll need to be in good communication with others about that sort of thing. Don't be afraid to ask how they did it last season either, no reason to re invent the wheel.