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Aaton Cantar X3 Launch


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Kortwich bag

11224743_10153401949845619_2971676679830

i'm still having issues seeing  this as a bag recorder. I know people do it, but IMO I wouldn't use it in a bag. I did get a chance to play with one this past weekend, and was very impressed with the machine overall. I think it makes for an excellent cart recorder, especially with the cantarem fader panel.

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i'm still having issues seeing  this as a bag recorder. I know people do it, but IMO I wouldn't use it in a bag. I did get a chance to play with one this past weekend, and was very impressed with the machine overall. I think it makes for an excellent cart recorder, especially with the cantarem fader panel.

If it wasn't intended to be used on occasions as a bag recorder, why would they have gone to the trouble to make it so relatively compact?

Weather proofing is another factor in it's intended use. I'm curious to know whether the X3 is equally as weather proof as the X2, X1 (the best in the business), seems unlikely, anyone know about how weather proof it is please?

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Pindrop: anyone know about how weather proof it is please?

According to Mike Paul, the product specialist at Location Sound, the X3 has the same weather proof characteristics as the X1 and X2 models.

MIke's email address isn't posted on the LSC site so I hesitate to post it here. But, if you want to follow-up with him, just send me a PM and I'll share it with you.

LSC in general can be contacted at: 818-980-9891.

David

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If it wasn't intended to be used on occasions as a bag recorder, why would they have gone to the trouble to make it so relatively compact?

Weather proofing is another factor in it's intended use. I'm curious to know whether the X3 is equally as weather proof as the X2, X1 (the best in the business), seems unlikely, anyone know about how weather proof it is please?

good point, but, if the device was intended to be used in a bag, it should be lighter (this thing is heavy), and it lacks certain ergonomics that would make it practical, such as the fact that my hand shouldn't cover the screen while I'm mixing.

Again, this is all purely my opinion. I applaud anyone who uses this in a bag, as it is a very capable machine with a lot of great things going for it.

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When I first picked up the X3 I was surprised by how light it was, but course there are lighter smaller mixer/recorders out there. Keep in mind that the X3 is such a different design that it's hard to make meaningful direct size and weight comparisons. 

Among other design considerations, the Cantar is built to endure the elements. No other recorder -- whether designed for a bag or a cart -- is sealed from water and dust and other damaging elements as well as the Cantar X3. From what I've seen, the X3 is even better sealed than the earlier versions. Therefore, it does not need the same protection of a traditional bag concept. Proposed bags I've seen for the X3 are a departure from the norm in that the bag is more attached to the Cantar rather than the Cantar being put in the bag. This will reduce the mass of bag, which can make the whole rig lighter that you'd expect.

It's different.

 

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I've worked for 7 years with an X2 on a variety of projects where I used it out of a bag and encountered no problems. As for weather proofing the X2 was incredible. The only modification I had Grenoble do was to put heated display for the meters as when the temperature dipped below minus 30 degrees C you could no longer see the meters. I also remember doing a shoot in the Egyptian desert and the temperature climbed to plus 50 degrees C and the X2 worked flawlessly. The X2 was also good in the sand. For the expedition type documentaries the X2 had no rivals. I early on abandoned Sound Devices and Zax gear because it would literally fall apart and become unreliable. Over the course of its life I've had the flywheel on the left side replaced twice with the work done by a factory trained tech at Audio Services in Toronto but that's been about it. I am now waiting for my X3.  I was told it should arrive in Toronto in the next couple of weeks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Erkal: would that be a good compromise ?

http://www.orcabags.com/product/audio-bag-rain-cover-model-35/

Yeah I have the Petrol version of this, which is pretty much exactly the same thing. Doesn't look very good but works well on normal rain. However I would not count on it on heavy rain as the top is still open.

I think something that is almost fully closed with just openings for the hands on sides could be a better option.

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Yeah I have the Petrol version of this, which is pretty much exactly the same thing. Doesn't look very good but works well on normal rain. However I would not count on it on heavy rain as the top is still open.

I think something that is almost fully closed with just openings for the hands on sides could be a better option.

I recently saw at the Atlanta Mixer event, Larry Nolan / Versa-Flex presented a very cool concept for a rain cover for sound bags. Honestly, the best solution I've seen to date. I wish I had pictures, but I don't. Let me see if I can find it on their website.

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I recently saw at the Atlanta Mixer event, Larry Nolan / Versa-Flex presented a very cool concept for a rain cover for sound bags. Honestly, the best solution I've seen to date. I wish I had pictures, but I don't. Let me see if I can find it on their website.

Would love to see Jose

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it was the second one! The one I saw was all black though, but it seems like it is that one indeed!

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When I first picked up the X3 I was surprised by how light it was, but course there are lighter smaller mixer/recorders out there. Keep in mind that the X3 is such a different design that it's hard to make meaningful direct size and weight comparisons. 

Among other design considerations, the Cantar is built to endure the elements. No other recorder -- whether designed for a bag or a cart -- is sealed from water and dust and other damaging elements as well as the Cantar X3. From what I've seen, the X3 is even better sealed than the earlier versions. Therefore, it does not need the same protection of a traditional bag concept. Proposed bags I've seen for the X3 are a departure from the norm in that the bag is more attached to the Cantar rather than the Cantar being put in the bag. This will reduce the mass of bag, which can make the whole rig lighter that you'd expect.

It's different.

Glen, you put it well. It's different. I have been using my X3 in one of my X2 bags and it works really well - doesn't have the instant access to the network or Dante sockets but I have used it this way for the past couple of months and enables me to work freely while I hatch ideas for my new bag. One of my design additions to the X3 was the pair of 3/8" strong mounts on the front of the recorder which enable accessories to be mounted on the recorder - much like say a Preston is mounted to a camera - rather than in a bag. X3 like X2, has strap mounting points but X3's are really nicely engineered retracting posts. This means that for over the shoulder work, the weight of the recorder can be taken on these posts. With the accessories mounted on the recorder - not in a bag - my new 'bag' can become a much lighter protective cover as it will carry no weight or stress. Now I have have wrapped, I can get the fittings engineered although there is the small matter of finishing my new 'up and down' sound cart cart first. Once I have my radio mics and other small accessories mounted to my satisfaction, I will start on my new bag. The X3 is working well in my existing bag so there is no rush and my new system can be thoroughly designed and engineered so that I can make my bespoke fittings available to other X3 users. Aaton have a well engineered off the shelf bag that fits snugly to the X3 using the 3/8" mounts - but off the shelf wouldn't be my way! And in the pic, only 3 of the Cantars are my own - the X3 and the X2 on the left belong to a colleague. 

 

 

 

 

Cantar collection.jpg

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Kortwich bag

11224743_10153401949845619_2971676679830

This is actually my Cantar (#0005) in an X2 bag from Kortwich. Noyzboyz ordered this special make witch is an extra 1cm in width. As you can see (almost clearly) in the picture the track solo buttons are kind of blocked by the bag, also rotaries 6,7 and 8 are not free from the bag. Also because of the new Cam-C clips to attach you harness, the holes in the back of the bag aren't in the exact right spot. My main concern was how to bring my receivers in this bag configuration. Because of the long faders my Rack3 with 2040 receivers would block the solo's, a part of the faders and some rotaries. Therefore I decided to make my own bag, when finished I will put up some pictures.

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I would like to know who has actually mixed using the built in magnetic faders on the X-3. The spacing seems very tight, of course, but I'm actually more interested in the feel, responsiveness and potential latency compared to traditional high quality analog faders (on an analog mixing panel like the Sonosax or Cooper).

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I would like to know who has actually mixed using the built in magnetic faders on the X-3. The spacing seems very tight, of course, but I'm actually more interested in the feel, responsiveness and potential latency compared to traditional high quality analog faders (on an analog mixing panel like the Sonosax or Cooper).

I have mixed on both the X2 and the X3. The X2 has a very usable little mixer, much improved if the a recent lower friction slider plate is fitted. I have mixed a couple of films directly on my X2 and it is quite do-able if for whatever reason you cannot use a panel / Cooper / Sonosax. The X3 is in another league. Aaton have put in a lot of design work into the magnetic slider concept. When I was at Grenoble a couple of years ago and I tried an early test rig of a single slider on the bench, I knew then that they were on to something really good. The linear faders (which Aaton refer to as sliders) on the X3 are in another league to the X2 - really smooth and with a longer throw. As the X3 can be used in the bag with the slider plate vertical, there has to be some friction otherwise the faders would open under their own weight but they have made them very smooth and it is very easy to cross fade. Yes they are closer spaced than my Sonosax but they are the 'on recorder faders' and there will be many Cantar X3 users who do all their work on these faders as they are just so good. I have just done the final six weeks on a film where I used predominantly the on board X3 faders and they worked really well for me. 

Aaton are also producing a linear fader panel for the Cantar X3 which is called Cantarem 2. Unlike the previous Cantarem panel which had Penny and Giles faders, the new panel will have a further development of the magnetic faders. The spacing and the travel will be similar to Cooper / Sonosax but on the new panel, as it will be used horizontally, Aaton have reduced the friction further still, making the faders feel like new Penny and Giles or the Sonosax Ko-On faders. The Cantarem 2 faders have polished rails that the faders slide on and this has really changed the feel to ultra smooth. I have taken the plunge and sold my Sonosax ST and will be using the X3 / Cantarem 2 as my main system (X3 / Cantarem, currently) and I do not see it as any compromise. In fact by loosing the analogue desk, it opens up so many other Cantar features such as channel delays, Dante, AES42 mode 2 and of course direct use of the legendary Aaton pre-amps that I would have bypassed if I had stayed with the Sonosax. As for latency: yes, if you come from an analogue desk to the X3 you will notice it at first but you soon learn to work with it. As I use my X2 on board mixer I am used to some latency and I understand that the X3 figure is a quarter of that of the X2. X3 is a massive step forward.

Tim

Cantarem 2.jpg

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I would like to know who has actually mixed using the built in magnetic faders on the X-3. The spacing seems very tight, of course, but I'm actually more interested in the feel, responsiveness and potential latency compared to traditional high quality analog faders (on an analog mixing panel like the Sonosax or Cooper).

HI Jeff,

I haven't used the X3 in production yet, but I can tell you that the faders are much smoother and have less friction than the X1 or X2. I've haven't noticed any latency in the fader assembly.

For a mixer designed for portable work, and with compact field mixers where faders need to be spaced close to each other, the slight amount of pressure is probably better than watery-smooth P&G faders. Like field mixers with rotary faders, its better to have a little pressure so they don't move unintentionally.  Of course, the faders need to be easy to move, but the main thing is not how much force is needed to move them, but how consistent and smooth they are to move -- and the X3 vertical faders are very smooth.

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