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A New Sound Mixers Guide to getting better jobs..


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"Scams" is perhaps too harsh of a word for a vast majority of work that you might find on CraigsList.org or Mandy.com. I don't really think producers are scam artist, but more or less bullshit artist.  What I mean is I'm sure you'll run into tons and tons of producers that say they have no money to pay you. or, will hire you the next time, or will pay you if the film makes money. Complete bull.. Don't be taken by these guys. You'll work, many many hours, and never make any cash.

So, why do you 'need' to make cash?  Because the sound business HAS to make cash, or your will NOT be able to buy or pay for equipment.  Since Equipment is a huge part of our business, you need equipment to keep doing what your doing.  Your equipment represents a huge investment, DO NOT JUST GIVE THAT AWAY. Combine this will replacement cost, fixing cost, gas, mileage, transportation.. it's a loosing battle.

Over the last number of years, I've learned to spot complete bullshit from legit jobs. I've turned down lots of jobs because I've been on bullshit jobs, and they are NO fun. And, believe me, the bullshit gigs will never stop unless you find a way to target and identify them, and turn them down.

1) You need to establish a base pay for yourself.  Mine is actually 400.00/per day.  If they are low budget films your applying for, tell them for example they can get a 50% discount for student discount, new director, whatever.  This sets a precedence, and they see you as a high budget guy, helping them out this time.  If you set your prices too low, you can't raise them.. but if you start out high, and tell them all the discounts you offer, people look at that like a deal.

2) Deferred pay == NO Pay.  I don't know a single person in any field that has ever seen a dime from deferred pay.  Sound Mixers are so low on the totem pole that you'll never even been thought of even if they did come into cash later.  But the reality is.. unless your big budget film, no one makes any money on it ever!  Everyone is using this to get to the next level ONLY.

3) Meals and Credit.. Now there's nothing wrong with No pay gigs.. I've done them even a few freebies here and there for a good cause. But NEVER do a NO pay gig, and throw in the equipment too.  Paying for equipment means they get 2 deals, and you front the cost for their production.  Even worse, what if something breaks on your equipment. Now you've got to pay for it and work for free too?  No way.  Don't give away your equipment without RENT or Kit fee.  Any legitimate company would jump at the chance to get a REAL sound mixer on the set for FREE, and all they have to do is pay the rental!!  If they turn you down.. All they were after was to see if they can find someone gullible enough to pay for their production sound.

4) Get ya work on the next shoot..  Yeah Right. Boy have I heard this one. What makes them even think there will be a next time.. seriously, most people give up the production biz after the first film kicks there ass so badly.  And, what makes anyone even sure that you can, be able to, or will work on their next shoot.  I fell like saying, "I have a better idea.. why don't you pay me full rate now, and on the next one I'll do it for a drastic discount".

5) Flat rates.. The reason producers offer Flat rates like 1000 bucks/whole job, is they think that you can't do the math and figure out yourself that your only being paid $2.00 per hour.  So they lump it into one sum, to try and make it look like it's a lot to some poor guy thats been out of work for a while. What happens if the job runs over or they add another production day?  And it will.. You make even less money. Instead, you need to explain to a producer that does this, "Hollywood works on daily rates".

6) For the Art!  This is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard! Right.. The bottom line, just because the dumb shits got a DV camera and a pirate copy of FCP, doesn't make them an artist or a film maker. Movies at ever level cost BUCKS.  Lights still haven't changed, sound still hasn't changed, just about every position has NOT changed on a set. Ask any real movie producer. Films cost more money to make now, then they ever did, even with new technology.  Don't fall for anyone saying we do it for the love of filmaking.. or were a group of people that love filming.. People are in this business because they want to get a job and make money doing films..  If they loved art so much, buy a painting studio.

7) Everyone is working for free..  "That is their problem" I'd say.  If I had a rich uncle who bought me 60 thousand dollars worth of equipment, I'd perhaps do it for free too.  Unfortunately, I have producers tell me this all the time.. Work this gig and at the end, watch all the crew people receive checks.. and you'll feel like a real chump.

8) Invest in this film..  I for the life of me can't figure out why producers seam to come after the staff for the funds to raise for the film.  Perhaps because they think they are easier targets than venture capitalist for money.  I can see why people might invest in a film, but at least when you "pay the bills" you can ask for some creative choices.. But if your the sound mixer, you have 0 say in creative. Sound Mixers are below the line jobs.  They have NO creative input into a film.  This is why sound mixers DO NOT HAVE DEMO REELS, what are you going to show someone exactly?  You come to the set, you record the sound, and if you did your job right, someone takes the sound, re-engineers it, thus destroying your work in the final product. What the heck do you show someone?

How to stop being taken advantage of..

1)  Learn to turn down jobs.  Once you smell a rat, just politely decline the job thats all.  No need to get defensive about it, or write back with snide remarks.  Just say, no thank you, perhaps the next one.

2)  Avoid interviews.  I haven't manage to do this one yet fully.  Most interviews turn out to be "sales" sessions.  They want to meet you so they can try and sell you on their film, and see if you'll do it for free.  Sometimes I feel like your buying a used car.  I have found the interview to be positive for them trying to get a 'feel' for you. But in general, the best jobs that I've ever had, not one of them ever had an interview.  Most end up being a huge waste of your time, because the producers are usually NEW, and they think they need to hire crew people, like they do actors.  Most of the interviewers have no idea what to even ask me once I'm sitting at their desk.

3)  Always include your equipment.  Explain that "I'm willing to work for free, but my equipment is not".  Remember kit fee for equipment, period.  Legit companies would jump at the chance for a free mixer if all they had to do was buy the equipment.

4)  Avoid the job, if they say they want minimal equipment.  You decide on how much equipment you need for the shoot, not a producer who knows nothing about sound.  Basically, these are code words for, "we don't want to buy any sound equipment, but we want the best sound you can get with just a boom pole".  Lately it seams craigs list adds are asking for just a boom op and no sound mixer.  Producers think by trying to eliminate the sound equipment, they can get good sound, and not have to pay anything. Don't work on Boom op, with NO Sound mixer.. This makes you the sound mixer, responsible for the sound.  If it sounds bad (and it will) then you'll get a bad rep, and never be hired again.  You'll feel bad and perhaps even donate some equipment.. Don't walk into that one.

5)  Make sure you have overtime built into the contract.  Most contracts in crew, are verbally, but thats ok.  Make sure you say, "since I'm working for low low budget, I'm ok with that, but if we go over 12 hours, I have to charge overtime".  This one is easy.. every producer says it will be an easy job, so it's easy for them to promise no overtime.  But when your on production, the overtime will save your ass from virtual slavery as well as make you more money.  If your working on a production that has a huge bunch of free workers, guess whats going to happen!!!  Abuse.  Protect yourself.  If they don't agree with the overtime, then walk away proud because they are planning on abusing the crew! Think yourself very lucky.

6)  Learn the camera.  What camera they are using tells me mountains of info on the production.  Panasonic P2 = low budget.  35mm Panavision = much larger budget.  Don't let them convince you they have no money, but were shooting 4 weeks with a Panavision..  People with no money don't shot 4 week productions with 200K cameras. Don't be the chump.

I don't really want to post this on my website, because then it just sounds like sour grapes on my end.. And, my website is more geared toward educating producers and film makers about how sound works.  When really, it's a education to new mixers thats all.

If anyone has anything to offer with their experience.. please do.

Thanks

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If those rules work for you then rock on.  I think I'm a bit more "situational" than you--I try to take in the whole picture of what is going on and then examine how I feel about it.  I HAVE done well with deferred contracts, several times, so it does work out well sometimes.  I don't want my working life to be entirely about money, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either, unless I think it is for a good cause.  The main things I look for in people calling w/ these sorts of jobs are honesty, humility and a sense that they understand what they are asking for and are grateful that their project will be considered under the circumstances.

Philip Perkins

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  Well said!  I agree with everything except the no interview.  I WANT the interview so I can sell these people on my ability and personality as well as ask them questions about how they are going to get their movie made.  Of course I would never have an interview with people who won't talk rates over the phone or talk about $200 days...

  Dan Izen

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I agree with much of what Richard says.  The biggest problem with freebies is that later, when they really have money, directors often use someone else with bigger credits.  That happens far more often than not.  I hate hearing directors brag about how their film was made for almost no money, when they really made it on the backs of people working for free.  When he made it big, I wonder if Rodriquez kept using the same crew that worked for peanuts on El Mariachi?

John Coffey CAS

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I agree with much of what Richard says.  The biggest problem with freebies is that later, when they really have money, directors often use someone else with bigger credits.  That happens far more often than not.  I hate hearing directors brag about how their film was made for almost no money, when they really made it on the backs of people working for free.  When he made it big, I wonder if Rodriquez kept using the same crew that worked for peanuts on El Mariachi?

John Coffey CAS

Also, once they realize that they can't afford you on the next film when its time to pay, they simply just move on to another new sound mixer to get more freebies because.. hey, it worked before.

-Richard

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If those rules work for you then rock on.  I think I'm a bit more "situational" than you--I try to take in the whole picture of what is going on and then examine how I feel about it.  I HAVE done well with deferred contracts, several times, so it does work out well sometimes.  I don't want my working life to be entirely about money, but I don't want to be taken advantage of either, unless I think it is for a good cause.  The main things I look for in people calling w/ these sorts of jobs are honesty, humility and a sense that they understand what they are asking for and are grateful that their project will be considered under the circumstances.

Philip Perkins

Philip,

I didn't consider something.. This might just be an LA thing or the general hippy culture here perhaps.

-Richard

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Maybe not.

IMHO Rodriguez "Mariachi" was not even close to Iñarritu's "Amores Perros" but that's just MY opinion. And how Hollywood works, you already know....

Actually the answer is sort of... He works with a lot of the same people. You pretty much have to be in his inner circle to (or be recommended by somebody in his inner circle) to work with him. He didn't forget the people who helped him get where he is today.

I'm more in Philip's camp and do things based on what the situation is. I did work earlier this year that was much lower than my day rate. However, the sound was great and the client we did the videos for was very happy. In return, the producer has been using me at my full rate on several commercial gigs. A similar thing happened recently when I got a call from a producer from the Travel channel. I was recommended by the director who couldn't pay me much for some web episodes he was doing, but said he would help me later. He did. However, I know for ever good story there are probably a dozen horror stories out there.

That said, there are two shorts that I have agreed to do gratis. One because the script is just one of those gems. It's a quirky love story and honestly I'm tired of all the gore and violence genre movies that people want me to work on. We wrap on this one tomorrow and it has been a real treat to work on it, even for no pay. The only other thing I'm working on soon is another gem script that deals with Alzheimer’s, and pretty much everyone who is anybody in this town is donating their time to this one.

In my opinion, you are only taken advantage of if you let it happen. I'm very selective about projects I work on, and these days I have turned down more work than I have taken.  

I don't know, I agree with many things Richard has said, yet a great many of them I don't. Maybe it's differences in where we live and the people we deal with. Most people here still do like the art aspect of it.

Wayne

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I agree with much of what Richard says.  The biggest problem with freebies is that later, when they really have money, directors often use someone else with bigger credits.  That happens far more often than not.  I hate hearing directors brag about how their film was made for almost no money, when they really made it on the backs of people working for free.  When he made it big, I wonder if Rodriquez kept using the same crew that worked for peanuts on El Mariachi?

John Coffey CAS

Yeah, true, but even if they paid you sort of decently they are still going to move on to people with more experience and more impressive credits if they become successful, or at least that's what usually happens.

Philip Perkins

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Yeah, true, but even if they paid you sort of decently they are still going to move on to people with more experience and more impressive credits if they become successful, or at least that's what usually happens.

Philip Perkins

Definitely true, even on decently budgeted films.  If you mix a $5 million dollar film for someone, and their next film is budgeted at $10 million, chances are they'll call their $10 million dollar mixer, not you.

There are exceptions, of course - what is that old saying about exceptions proving the rule?  For instance, Darren Aronofsky has kept the same mixer on all his films since - maybe not all of them, I don't know, but I do know that the same mixer who worked on "Pi" worked on his later, larger budgeted films.

Tim

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I always say there are 3 reasons to accept a job, the  "3P's."

1) The Project - meaning the quality of the project. Are you proud of the material? Will people respect you for doing it? Will it get you attention? Maybe an award nomination (not that that's the most important thing)?

2) The People - Are these people you enjoy working with? Are they people you would invite over for dinner and spend time with?

3) The Pay - Union scale with benefits? Non-union, but over scale? Low pay? No pay?

I've been working in film for 20 years, and I've never had all three at once.

Frankly, you should consider yourself lucky if you get 2 out of 3. Sometime it comes down to just one.

As for which one:

1) The Project - 90% of everything is crap. After 20 years, I still haven't broken through to the top 10%. That's not to say I haven't worked on some things I've proud of, particularly documentaries and some family-oriented projects. But I've never done anything that won a Peabody Award.

Furthermore, when I sign on for a job, I'm lucky if there's a rough cut to see, and frequently my decision is based on a read of the script. A script is not a blueprint; no one decides to tear down a support wall in the middle of construction, but scripts get rewritten while shooting. Casting is equally as important as the script. There is so much out of your control, it's almost impossible to tell if something is going to be good or not until it's too late.

2) The People - There are an awful lot of people in the industry I wouldn't spend time with unless I were being paid to do so. Even old friends of mine who have gotten into the business have become worse people as a result of the environment. It's so overwhelmingly filled with greed, narcissism and dishonesty, it eventually rubs off on people. Again... that's not to say I hate everybody. I've made plenty of lifelong friends in the industry. And frequently, I met them by working on crap.

Oh, and by the way, "The People" is the major reason I prefer being called in for a job interview. It's as much a question of whether I want to work with them as whether they want to hire me.

3) The Pay - I have a mortgage to pay, so unfortunately The Pay is usually the most important one. When I was younger, I would work for cheap... even free, but I no longer have the patience for that. If you choose to work for free, you have to understand what the repercussions may be. If you give it away for free, you are telling people how much you are worth. Why would anyone else pay you? All you are doing is setting a poor precedent.

And to be honest, I've never been in a position financially to say no to somebody who offered me a decent salary. The one time I did say no because I was too busy to do three jobs at once... I picked the wrong projects based on my perceived quality of the project. I turned down a low-budget feature that I thought was silly and would tank, which went on to be one of the highest-grossing comedies of all time and spawned a sequel. Instead, I stayed on 2 TV series, both of which were cancelled less than a month after my decision.

Particularly for production sound, I remind people that on a low-budget project, it's not uncommon that the production Sound Mixer is the highest paid person on the set. The reason is that it's so friggin' expensive to fix it in post that experienced producers want to make sure it's done right the first time. If they say everyone else is working "for nothing," remind them that it's no one's business what anyone gets paid, and that if you're the only one getting paid at all (or you're getting paid more than the DP), you and the producer will be the only one to know that, so it should never be an issue.

Every job is unique, and you always have to watch out for yourself.

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The cynic in me totally agrees with Richard, I think it's a great post and mirrors a lot of what's on my mind. I'm in the somewhat precarious and dubious position of doing production sound "part time" in the UK. However I continue to do so, actively selecting freebies to work on, 1) to improve my game, 2) meet people. I probably missed my "once in a lifetime" opportunity back in the nineties when I chose to work a bit on TV instead of doggedly sticking to film and working in the sound dept. for a director who is now a household name.

Rightly or wrongly, my opinion is that here in the UK we have film service industry so good luck making art that no one cares about, least of all paying money to see it.

FWIW, in the UK the equivilent to CraigsList is things like Talent Circle and Shooting People. The real kicker being that Shooting People want you to pay them a subscription in order to look for jobs that rarely, if ever, pay out! The only place I've found in the UK that are true "hippy" co-operatives is OTTfilms and elements of PortsmouthScreen. Still aint close to paying my mortgage though.

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Anybody who works in the business eventually runs into what a co-worker of mine calls "bottom-feeders" who are always trying to work a scam. In some cases, their intentions are good; they think they're just being good businessmen. And their hardball deal-making not only affects the sound mixer, they're also squeezing the camera operator, the DP, the camera rental house, even the lab and the post house.

I've been approached by three or four friends of mine doing small features or very elaborate shorts, either to do sound or to give post advice, and I've pointed them towards this book:

Film & Video Budgets, (2006 Edition)

by Deke Simon & Michael Wiese

published by Michael Wiese Productions (ISBN #1932907106)

and told them to read the line item on sound -- bearing in mind that the book is a couple of years out of date. The book has budgets for everything from a $50,000 industrial to a $3,000,000 feature, and everything inbetween, and I think their rates are at least in the ballpark of reality.

But a lot of small-time producers have no idea how to allocate the money they have in the budget, and don't grasp there's a minimum cost to everything. This is particularly true for little DV or HDV projects, where the producers don't understand that a simple, halfway-decent sound package probably costs three or four times what the camera costs. They think of production as being mainly about cameras, lights, and grip equipment, and don't consider sound (or post) nearly enough.

I've also reminded them: "if you don't pay for good sound now, you'll just wind up paying more to fix it in ADR or putting bandaids on it in the mix later on." The smart producers get it, but the inexperienced ones just give you the deer-in-the-headlights look.

--Marc W.

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But a lot of smalltime producers have no idea how to allocate the money they have in the budget, and don't grasp there's a minimum cost to everything. This is particularly true for little DV or HDV projects, where the producers don't understand that a simple, halfway-decent sound package probably costs three or four times what the camera costs. They think of production as being mainly about cameras, lights, and grip equipment, and don't consider sound (or post) nearly enough.

The problem might even be worse than this..

Someone, or some professor (And I know for a fact that this is whats being told to the students over at Chapman) is teaching these new producers that films can be made for ZERO money!!!  So, they are diving into their projects headlong without ANY budgets.

I've approached several faculty over at Chapman about this, and they just kind of blow me off.  Its the simple fact that they simply have the assumption that if they have all the gear, then they can find someone to press the record button... problem solved.

-Richard

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The problem might even be worse than this..

Someone, or some professor (And I know for a fact that this is whats being told to the students over at Chapman) is teaching these new producers that films can be made for ZERO money!!!  So, they are diving into their projects headlong without ANY budgets.

I've approached several faculty over at Chapman about this, and they just kind of blow me off.  Its the simple fact that they simply have the assumption that if they have all the gear, then they can find someone to press the record button... problem solved.

-Richard

The "Bowfinger Theory".  Yes, it works for people who are arrogant enough to believe that an academic background in film theory, a small amount of experience shooting personal projects of no consequence and the fact that they get to go to parties with major donors to their school who might be famous filmmakers qualifies them as major filmmakers in  their own right.  You can't help these people--they don't think they need any help and believe that working their way is stealing the "art of filmmaking" back from the overpaid jackals (people like us) who have colonized it for our own lazy, devious, blue-collar purposes.  It's ok, their projects never amount to anything outside their own institution, and their students eventually either get knocked in the head by reality or find something else to do.  I have frequently tried to explain to such folks that the movie/video business is full of very smart, pretty ruthless people who are in it to get rich, and they do not spend money on their projects without believing they have to.  They use professional crews.  What conclusion do we draw from this?

Philip Perkins

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The "Bowfinger Theory".  Yes, it works for people who are arrogant enough to believe that an academic background in film theory, a small amount of experience shooting personal projects of no consequence and the fact that they get to go to parties with major donors to their school who might be famous filmmakers qualifies them as major filmmakers in  their own right.  You can't help these people--they don't think they need any help and believe that working their way is stealing the "art of filmmaking" back from the overpaid jackals (people like us) who have colonized it for our own lazy, devious, blue-collar purposes.  It's ok, their projects never amount to anything outside their own institution, and their students eventually either get knocked in the head by reality or find something else to do.  I have frequently tried to explain to such folks that the movie/video business is full of very smart, pretty ruthless people who are in it to get rich, and they do not spend money on their projects without believing they have to.  They use professional crews.  What conclusion do we draw from this?

Philip Perkins

Wow Philip,

Nicely said, indeed..

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I agree as well. I have gone "Blue in the Face" trying to explain this stuff to the film professors in my town. One of them actually call me in anger when they found out what I charged a film student who call me for sound for a project. I told him that the power company won't take students film copies in exchange for power service.

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