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moreno

Booming

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Hello to all (new to the group),

 

I'm going to be working on a doc in Beirut and America. Usually I capture field recordings of ambient sound.

On this doc i'll be recording dialogue and music as well as ambient sound. This is my first time doing this and I was wondering if you could offer tips on capturing three to four people in conversation with regards to off-mic issues.

 

I'll be using Audio Ltd 2040 radios with dpa4060 mics and either a Schoeps or if I can get hold of one  DPA4017 shotgun.

 

I have been thinking of an ms setup but unfortunately DPA doesn't have such a set up so it may well be schoeps in the end.

 

Thank you in advance.

Moreno

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hi, and welcome...

now that you are here, you have a lot of reading to catch up on, so much that you may have to miss the O'seas gig...

while there is no simple answer to your familiar questions, remember that it takes years of experience to get years of experience, and as for the gear you have, or don't have, keep in mind that it isn't about the arrows, it is about the archer...

 

--sent from one of my personal computing devices...using an email program...

  can you tell which one ?

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Fair point, forget the MS for the dialog, it causes more harm than good. There's no easy answer to how to boom 3-4 people other than keep your wits about you and try to follow the flow of the conversation, stick a radio on the main talkers too.

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moreno: " I'll be doing the post. "

maybe you are getting in over your head ?  maybe you should stick to doing post..?  If DPA doesn't make one, you don't need it.

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Ok thanks Jon.

 

Well Senator...maybe I could be...maybe i'll get into it and find out that i'm actually good at it...how will I ever know without trying?

 

What was your first location recording job like? Do you remember your first job where you knew you were out of your depth? How did you get through the experience?

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...not sure my last post made it through...

 

Thanks Jon will do.

 

Senator...I may well be getting in over my head....I may discover that I'm good at it or that it turns out to be a nightmare and i'll be scarred forever!...But I know I must do it, try my best or i'll regret not trying.

 

You must have taken on a job in an unfamiliar area and realised you were in over your head. How did you make it through to the other side?

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What was your first location recording job like? Do you remember your first job where you knew you were out of your depth? How did you get through the experience?

 

I tried to avoid taking those jobs early on! And when I did get a big job, I'd do a bunch of run-throughs days before production started, tested all the equipment from top to bottom, visited the locations so there were no surprises, and called experienced friends of mine for advice. And I read about fifty books and articles (in my vast spare time) to prepare, along with the thousands of discussions on this site.

 

The worlds of post and production are vastly different but overlapping, as you know. You've got some good advice above, particularly on the issue of M/S for dialogue. If you have to capture four or five people speaking simultaneously in a documentary, my advice would be 1) get a great boom op, 2) use a multitrack recorder, 3) put wireless lavs on everybody speaking and iso them, and 4) get the best possible usable mono mix that you can. And when it comes to ambient sound and music, go back later with the M/S stereo mics when nobody is talking and get the backgrounds then. If you have to get music without dialogue, set up for that and optimize it all for music. All strictly my opinion.

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You could use an MS mic, but treat it as two separate mics and not as stereo. If you find that you can't boom fast enough, you'll at least have the other talker on the second mic. If you are an inexperienced boomer, using two mics on the boom is a lot mote difficult. It's much heavier and more prone to handlung noise. Good booming with one mic is better

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Fantastic everyone. Thank you for the advice. Deeply appreciated.

 

I have two weeks to prep. Unfortunately being based in the UK I can't visit the locations. But I will have time to check out the gear.

 

Much appreciated all.

M

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If you're following the same protagonists all day, I'd strongly advise to wire them all. So they are covered, and you can use the boom for anybody they might meet and talk to, and whom you can't wire.

 

MS is good for backgrounds and music, yes. Maybe not with a shotgun M, though.

 

And yes, do a bit of reading books (or forums, for that matter - I don't think there's one book containing as much in-depth info as this forum does) and definitely practice how to use lavs.

Also do some reading on timecode, and on the cameras to be used. Don't rely on the cam department to know their camera especially wrt timecode and audio.

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 moreno: " What was your first location recording job like? "

I was working with someone who knew what he was doing, and knew that I didn't, so much... IOW: an experienced mentor

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You could use an MS mic, but treat it as two separate mics and not as stereo. If you find that you can't boom fast enough, you'll at least have the other talker on the second mic. If you are an inexperienced boomer, using two mics on the boom is a lot mote difficult. It's much heavier and more prone to handlung noise. Good booming with one mic is better

HUH?

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HUH?

You realize that an MS rig is 2 microphones, a figure 8 as the side and a mono mic as the middle.

The point the guys are trying to make is, if you aren't good enough to swing one microphone how are you going to cope with 2.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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Hello,

Yes I know what an M/S set up is. I've used it for ambient field recordings and music and won't be using it for dialogue on the doc. 

 

Thanks.

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Moreno,

 

I don't use MS for dialogue for some of the reasons mentioned above but if 1 was to use an MS set up for dialogue "swinging" it around is not really what you'd want to do. Backwards and forwards along the lens axis maybe, but pitching and swinging (stage) left and right, would basically ruin the stereo sound image you would be trying to create (hopefully in relation to what the camera is showing).

 

Whatever your choice of mic my advice for you is:

~ Know the shot/s (keep an eye on what the camera op/s is/are doing with the lens/es and what the director is asking for)*. 

~ Anticipate everything and try to have a plan - who's going to talk next, what the camera op is going to do, what obstacles you will have to negotiate if you are moving, how what your doing is going to be used in the edit (if you've not been told), when you're next break may be etc.

~ If you are the only 1 monitoring sound you may need to make useful suggestions that will help get useable sound but do so diplomatically (eg there maybe something better for everyone than a long, big wide, 5 shot beside a main road).

 

* Given how cheap some cameras are these days you may well find more than 1 camera in play - not only would this make stereo acquisition even more of a moot point but mono booming will also be more difficult. 

 

atb,

 

dan.

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Nice one Dan. And no I never had any intention of using MS for dialogue! I just wanted a mobile setup I could use on the fly that gave me the option of going stereo when I needed to capture atmospheres. But dialogue will definitely be in mono.

 

Thank you to you and everyone for your advice. 

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