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Setup suggestions for SD442, Sennheiser G2 & Pana video camera


davidabc

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Hi, I am new to all this and I have a question on how to set up my gear. I have spent hours going in circles, and your knowledge and advice would be greatly appreciated. 

I just purchased a second hand Sound Devices 442 and need some guidance.

I have a Sound Devices 442 and want to connect up two Sennheiser G2 (or G3) wireless microphones as an input, and the output to a Panasonic HMC150 video camera. 

What settings would you recommend for the G2 and the 442? Also how would you suggest I set up the 442 and the video camera (eg limiter settings etc). 

I look forward to your replies. 

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442 > Panasonic HMC150 video camera.

Simple:  Both  442 main XLRs outputs the camera's XLR inputs should be set to LINE. Then set the calibration tone so 0dB on the 442 meter equals -20dBFS on the camera's meter,  DO NOT use 'AGC' or other 'auto' setting on the camera.

When I use G2/3s with SD gear, a MIC level input will work good. Assuming your using the  EK100 portable receiver, set the AF level at  -12 or -18dB and you should be able to attain adequate levels. There's been much discussion on the G2/3 systems so searching this and the DV audio forums for other worthwhile info.

Since you're asking these questions, you obviously have little knowledge of audio, so I would suggest reading Ty Ford's and/or Jay Rose's books which cover the basics. Read  the 442 manual.as well. Additionally, you should consider hiring an audio pro for anything important as you are probably in over yo' head.at this point.

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Thanks Rick, it's good advice. Just a couple of other questions if you don't mind.

 

(1)  442 > Panasonic HMC150 video camera

I am just wondering what you recommend to set the limiter to be on the 442 when connected to the HMC150? It can go from 20dB down to 0dB

 

(2) What other DV audio forums do you suggest I look at?

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Dear Senator,

 

Yes I have tried to do as much research as I can first before posting a question... short of buying a book on the subject.  Doing a Google Search on Sound Devices 442 do not yeild much information and I ended up contacting Sound Devices personally for a recommendation of a forum I could go to... that's how I ended up here.  I then did many searches on this forum and read through everything I could find on 442, 552 etc, but nothing came close to helping me with these fundamental questions.  I also spent 4-5 hours "playing" with my equipment and trying different combinations and then testing the results.  I still need advice on a good approach to determine the best settings for the 442 output limiters when connected to my video camera.  Oh, and I forgot to mention that I have read the entire manual of the 442 (mulitple times).

I hope this answers your question.

 

Do you have any other advice to help me answer my question?

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Vasileios, the 442 has an adjustable output limiter.  Selectable from +4 dBu to +20 dBu in 1dB steps.  My question is how to decide what setting to place it at so that I maximise the combination of the Camera-Mixer combination.

 

In other words... I set the video camera line input levels so that when the mixer level meters show 0 dB VU, using the analog scale the camera meters show -20 dBFS using the digital scale. After this alignment is made all audio level adjustments are done with the mixer, not camera.  But what do I set the output limiter of the Sound Devices 442 to?

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Eric, fantastic!  And now that you write that, it makes perfect sense to me.  I have set the video camera to -20 dBFS and the 442 to 0dBU, so if I set the output limiter on the 442 to +16dBU then I will have 4dBU headroom.

 

Assuming that I understand this correctly...

 

THANKS A MILLION! 

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david: " short of buying a book on the subject. "

why..?

besides Jay Rose's www.dplay.com, I think you would get a lot out of  Rick Viers'  Location Sound Bible www.mwp.com 

" a Google Search on Sound Devices 442 "

A Google search..? as in one search ??  give me a break...

" to determine the best settings "

if there were a single "best settings", there would be no need for controls...

it takes trial and error,  and experience...

and it takes years of experience to get years of experience....

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Davidabc,

 

You understand it perfectly. If you keep the levels on your 442 at around +10 they should read -10 on the camera meters. By adjusting the monitor level on the camera and using the A/B return toggle switch on the 442 and the return level pots on the left side of the 442 you will be able to read the camera level when you toggle the return switch on the 442. Of course you need to be hard wired to the camera with a hp return line for all the magic to happen.

 

Eric

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I concur with Eric. A limiter setting of +16dB on the 442 will work good.

The below  forums are generally for OMB camera folk, but audio pros also frequent to offer opinions and advice on the sites' audio forums. A lot of useful information for the less experienced and you won't have to put up with our beloved Senator..

DVinfo:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/all-things-audio/?s=1e2f95dfd534fa8f75acbfd2aa5a5259&
DVXuser:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?29-Audio&order=des

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hi David. +16 for the limiter is what I use too. are you using 2 xlr cables to feed the camera from your 442, or do you have a multipin snake cable? Highly recommend the "snake" route. It has 2 channels send and a return feed from the camera's headphone output. trew audio has some listed on it's site for you to look at (under "cables"). in Oz I'm sure there are plenty of places to buy one. The 442 is an excellent piece of equipment. you won't regret buying it. vey versatile.

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Thanks Eric, Rick and Chris!! Your advice is exactly what I needed to get me moving to the next level.  It is truely appreciated.

 

Eric, the suggestion to also monitor the level on the camera makes perfect sense... I'm going to try it tonight.

 

Rick, thanks for the other forums to look into. I did a quick scan and they look great and very helpful.

 

Chris, I am using 2 XLR cables and one return 3.5mm stereo cable for testing.  I looked at the snake cable (Sound Devices XL-10) with the 10-pin Hirose connector, but it is A$318 which is a bit steep for me for a cable.  It would be nice to have, but for me I will just use velcro for $10 to bundle the 3 cables I have.  Besides I would have to justify to my wife the expense... ;-)

 

Thanks also for your comment on the 442 as an "excellent piece of equipment".  My father was a sound engineer for the film industry during the second world war and I was never really got into sound although I became an Electrical Engineer.  Since his passing, I have taken a much greater interest as a sort of legacy to him... and my purchase of a 6 year old, discontinued 442, at a pretty high price (from my perspective) was a big step.  It was a good step, and to hear you guys, I feel that I have made a good decision.

 

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP.  It has been a pleasure.  If you come to Australia, let me know and we can catch up!

 

Regards,

David

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Senator,

 

SENATOR wrote:

David: " " a Google Search on Sound Devices 442 " "

a single search ??

"A Google search..? as in one search ?? give me a break..."

 

>>> Absolutely not a single search.  I spent hours on Google, Bing, and youtube with very very limited results.  And as a result I personally contacted the Manufacturer for guidance... as I said in my first reply to you. 

 

SENATOR said:

"" to determine the best settings "

if there were a single "best settings", there would be no need for controls..."

 

>>> you have taken my comments completely out of context.

>>> What I said was, " I need advice on a good approach to determine the best settings for the 442 output limiters when connected to my video camera".  I am asking for the approach and not the final settings.  I am not asking for the best fish to catch, but rather for suggestions on how to do the fishing to get a good result.

 

SENATOR wrote:

it takes trial and error, and experience...

and it takes years of experience to get years of experience...."

 

>>> Agreed.  But every long journey begins with a single step.  And we should encourage those interested to take those steps.  I am not a complete beginner in understanding.  I am an electrical engineer by training and also worked in broadcast for a short time for our national broadcaster.  As a result I feel that I have a reasonable understanding of S/N, gain structuring, microphone selection and placement, etc.  However I want to learn more.  Although I can buy a book on how to ride a bicycle and read it cover to cover, the theoretical is great, yet also needs the practise.  I have therefore bought a reasonable piece of equipment to begin the journey at the next level.

 

Finally, thank you for your advice on the books I should look into. 

 

Regards, David

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I think what the senior members here are trying to say is that if you have a basic understanding of signal flow and gain structure (audio 101) you wouldn't need to do such intense research to get basic fundamental answers. This is why there is probably little information on the subject: because everyone assums that you already know it if you are trying to do this type of work.

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