Jump to content
Brian

Red Epic failed to see timecode

Recommended Posts

Not to add much to this, but I am currently having this exact issue myself. I can't for the life of me get these two newly updated Epic Dragons to get them to see external TC with my ERX2TCD's. I worked with the same cameras immediately before the update and the ERX's worked just fine. RED told the owners that the EPIC currently doesn't work with Zaxcom products. I'm assuming it has got to be just the voltage issues because a blanket statement like that doesn't make any sense. To me that is like saying Sound Devices will only work with Mogami XLR cables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if it's a voltage issue? My memory is that the ERX2TCD's can do .5/1/2 volts out, right? The Denecke SB-3 that I use is (I believe) 1 volt, and it has yet to fail. I'd suspect the camera software is to blame, but that's only a guess.

 

Somebody should call Red (949-206-7900) and see if they have a fix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had a similar issue in October (pre-dragon upgrades). Narrative with two Epics. Morning of day 01, both took TC from ERX2TCD boxes, after lunch B-cam wouldn't, and didn't for the rest of the show. We rotated between my 3 ERX boxes, 2 SB-3 boxes, every cable in my kit, and even tried going direct. A-cam was always fine. Camera department wanted it solved as much as we did, but eventually it became a situation of sending it back to Red and that never happened.

TC slate, and we had post people on site syncing as we went along. Best we could tell, it was a camera quirk and had nothing to do with my gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a similar issue.  Shot an entire day with Alexa PLUS, two ERX2TCD, jammed code and ran scratch track perfectly all day.  Shot the same evening with Epics, and was unable to get code to lock on two epics, using multiple cables, multiple ERX2TCDs and different voltage amplitudes ranging from .125V to 3V on the ERX2TCDs etc.  Put a denecke on the epic and it immediately jammed.  I was also able to jam a denecke box using the ERX2TCD.  

 

Seemed to me the Epic specifically didn't like the code from the Zaxcom units.  

 

I spoke to RED and they said they have heard of the epics not getting along with the zaxcom units.  For what reason he did not know.  If the Denecke SB-3 jams it perfectly, either Red or Zaxcom isn't following SMPTE spec?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a similar issue.  Shot an entire day with Alexa PLUS, two ERX2TCD, jammed code and ran scratch track perfectly all day.  Shot the same evening with Epics, and was unable to get code to lock on two epics, using multiple cables, multiple ERX2TCDs and different voltage amplitudes ranging from .125V to 3V on the ERX2TCDs etc.  Put a denecke on the epic and it immediately jammed.  I was also able to jam a denecke box using the ERX2TCD.  

 

Seemed to me the Epic specifically didn't like the code from the Zaxcom units.  

 

I spoke to RED and they said they have heard of the epics not getting along with the zaxcom units.  For what reason he did not know.  If the Denecke SB-3 jams it perfectly, either Red or Zaxcom isn't following SMPTE spec?

 

Same exact issue happened to me on a movie last month.  Two Epics, neither of which would jam from my ERX or Nomad (eventually one jammed from Nomad only) but instantly synced with a deneke SB-3.  Turned out the editor wasn't using TC to sync, so after three days I just gave up on it.  I would have loved to have gotten an hour or so to mess with it to figure it out, but schedules did not allow, oh well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I resolved my issue, the Epics could see only the 29.97 fps through the erx2tcd so I ran at 29.97 while they ran at 23.98... which is numerically the TC is the same rate soo it works. All syncs up fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I resolved my issue, the Epics could see only the 29.97 fps through the erx2tcd so I ran at 29.97 while they ran at 23.98... which is numerically the TC is the same rate soo it works. All syncs up fine.

Interesting - I'm going to have to keep that in mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Epic Dragon for C-camera on an Alexa show today..

Yesterday, we had our test day.  It would not accept incoming time code from any of our devices.

We handed over a slate and told them to make very sure the numbers were in frame and in focus.

DiT manually synced the dailies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Epic Dragon for C-camera on an Alexa show today..

Yesterday, we had our test day.  It would not accept incoming time code from any of our devices.

We handed over a slate and told them to make very sure the numbers were in frame and in focus.

DiT manually synced the dailies.

Dragon update 1 had a bug that rendered the audio and TC circuits useless. Otherwise, try upping the output level of the timecode, some Epics like to see almost 2V.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Epic Dragon for C-camera on an Alexa show today..

Yesterday, we had our test day.  It would not accept incoming time code from any of our devices.

We handed over a slate and told them to make very sure the numbers were in frame and in focus.

DiT manually synced the dailies.

 

Just like film! Makes you wonder how we managed to have no timecode on picture for all those years and years in post...

 

I don't know how Red manages to screw up these software updates where timecode used to work, then they change something in regards to image processing and suddenly it breaks timecode. Ca-RaZy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Srgtfury   

I wonder if it's a voltage issue? My memory is that the ERX2TCD's can do .5/1/2 volts out, right? The Denecke SB-3 that I use is (I believe) 1 volt, and it has yet to fail. I'd suspect the camera software is to blame, but that's only a guess.

 

Somebody should call Red (949-206-7900) and see if they have a fix.

 

 

Hi Marc,

 

Fury has called RED and been there several times, regarding the issue at hand.  To be sure, this is not a voltage issue, as oscilloscope analysis of voltage outputs, from Nomad, ERX and sync able Lockit boxes are essentially identical, within the same output range-some less and some more, from ERX, of course.  The threshold voltage, for synch is achieved and no joy., from ERX/Nomad  The lead tech at RED pronounced it a hardware issue, at last check a week ago, but no resolution, from RED quite yet.

 

Thank you very much

 

Fury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Marc,

 

Fury has called RED and been there several times, regarding the issue at hand.  To be sure, this is not a voltage issue, as oscilloscope analysis of voltage outputs, from Nomad, ERX and sync able Lockit boxes are essentially identical, within the same output range-some less and some more, from ERX, of course.  The threshold voltage, for synch is achieved and no joy., from ERX/Nomad  The lead tech at RED pronounced it a hardware issue, at last check a week ago, but no resolution, from RED quite yet.

 

Thank you very much

 

Fury

 

Please do keep us posted on what RED says if they ever do decide to say something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
osa   

Working with an epic today, have worked with this particular epic in the past without any sync issues. As soon as i hit the tc menu i saw a bunch of new menu options since last time and i felt impending doom. Sure enough no tc sync at all erx voltage levels. Tried different cables. No dice. Swiched erx only to 29.97. MAGIC. Thank you guys for the help w this thread!

By doing this though, is sync being maintained by full second time base, similar to sony f3 etc? It seems so wrong yet it appears to be working

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Working with an epic today, have worked with this particular epic in the past without any sync issues. As soon as i hit the tc menu i saw a bunch of new menu options since last time and i felt impending doom. Sure enough no tc sync at all erx voltage levels. Tried different cables. No dice. Swiched erx only to 29.97. MAGIC. Thank you guys for the help w this thread!

By doing this though, is sync being maintained by full second time base, similar to sony f3 etc? It seems so wrong yet it appears to be working

Ken

 

Interesting. It's good to know that there is a workaround. I think it's important to test out the whether or not sync is being maintained though. Pick up a TC slate and jam it with your recorder; open the sticks and record it with the camera for a few seconds. Then in any NLE scrub to see whether the TC slate syncs at the start of every second with the camera's TC value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
osa   

Fyi i stepped thru all voltages during down time, TC does not illuminate until .5 and TC stays illuminated thru 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0. I stayed at 1.0 which felt like a safe zone.

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Working with an epic today, have worked with this particular epic in the past without any sync issues. As soon as i hit the tc menu i saw a bunch of new menu options since last time and i felt impending doom. Sure enough no tc sync at all erx voltage levels. Tried different cables. No dice. Swiched erx only to 29.97. MAGIC. 

 

Ah, it could be cross-jamming to 23.98 from 29.97ndf, which can work. Be sure to do a workflow test and have the DIT check to see if the camera file, sound file, and slate all show the same number at the same time. There are both "project rates" and "frame rates" within the Red Camera setup menu, and you gotta watch out for that. Ideally, they should both be 23.98, assuming they're delivering a 23.98 show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11-4-14

 

Shooting yesterday with a Red Epic Dragon and could not sync TC. Camera set at 23.976 fps. 

 

Today I called Red and they advised that the Red Dragon firmware build 5.2.38 fixes the TC problem, but note: the are testing with Ambient Lockits and with Zaxcom devices. Not with Denecke devices.

 

fwiw: Yesterday I tried jamming from my Denecke SB-3, directly from my SD633, as well as from the Denecke TS-3 slate (which outputs TC) and also tried cross jamming and no go. Yes we had the right cable. but I guess not the right firmware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was wondering what experiences people have had using the Tig Q28 with the "Reds".  Since the tig allows you to adjust the output level, does that help at all when syncing with the Epic?

 

Tom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Srgtfury   

Was wondering what experiences people have had using the Tig Q28 with the "Reds".  Since the tig allows you to adjust the output level, does that help at all when syncing with the Epic?

 

Tom

Hi Tom,

 

The Zaxcom ERX, with 1.33) needs to be set to 2 volts, to get 23.976.  The actual output may not be that high, however.  This is with the firmware versions at or  than what is listed above,, including Betas, for the RED Dragons.   Please report back, with a fresh firmware to current release, for Dragon and output voltage from your slate set to 1.0 volt, as a first step.

 

Thank you very much

 

Fury

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have a shoot on monday with red epic,  lately been only shooting to dragon,  just wondering if others have been having luck with the new firmwares on the ERX's, since the voltage can be chosen,  whether that plays nice with the older red epic's?

 

And if it's the same as dragon (2.0v) that plays nice with them ?

 

Cheers

Prahlad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Rec Epic Fail.. Sometimes going in and out of the timecode menus and changing and resetting the settings can help it act right.. Sometimes a reboot... Every now and then I've seen them just get the bodies replaced. Epic..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so annoying ay,  

I did a shoot a couple weeks ago,  I have 4 erx cables for red...  2 made by audio dep... 2 made by trew... 

i've confirmed all 4 to work in general...

 

this red would not jam to the audio dep cables,  soon as I plugged in the trew ones... instant,  didn't drift once the whole 5 days,  green TC always.  go figure,  both at 2.0v from the erx,  almost like the capacitance of the different cables made the difference, but i doubt it,  who knows,   red,  not a class act.  Arri,  class act.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate C   

That's strange Prahland.

 

I would imagine both cables to be made the same, as no capacitors are needed and there is only one way to wire the cable if I remember correctly. I made my own (ERX to Epic) and I've never had any issues related to cables or my ERX. I have however had an epic accept TC and then after lunch refuse to see TC no matter what method applied.

 

Need to make some more Epic TC cables but I'm still suffering from flashbacks.

 

Cheers Nate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×