SeeKai Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Hello fellow DIYers! I've recently been working a lot with a very thin and flexible shielded 2 core cable. As with many cables of this diameter the flexibility is achieved/aided with strands of nylon(? seeking correction on this). I'm looking to share info regarding how best to work with this type of cable stock. Methods of mine have included: - separating the copper and nylon (tedious & frustrating!), twisting the copper and then melting the nylon strands quickly with a lighter or cut with a sharp pair of pliers. The twisted copper is then filed lightly if needed to remove any black marks and then cleaned with solvent. The copper is then tinned. - if the wire is stripped properly and I'm lucky I get a central column of nylon surrounded by copper wire, if I have the iron hot enough I can tin the whole thing quickly. Occasionally the two substances are separated by the heat while the copper is tinned and you can snip away the nylon. I've managed to achieve satisfactory bonds with each connector I've worked with so far (I've also burned through a few lower cost TA3's because the temperatures required to make the connection have melted the plastic in the pin block - argh!). However, I am open to any tips or tricks to working with this kind of cable as I'm naturally looking for the best practice to maximise the quality of my cables! I know there are a few masters on the board, if you'd be willing to share any advice it would be appreciated. Cheers! Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 SK: " with strands of nylon " not necessarily, in fact, I believe Nylon is not often used... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeKai Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I've been trying to figure out what the material actually is (I've written to my supplier in case they know and will of course correct myself if and when I get a response). Google searches have not been successful, most probably because I've been inputting the wrong words! Hard to search with generic terms like "cable" and "fibres/fibers". With this posting I'm interested in comparing workflows if people are willing to share, but thanks for letting me know it's not often nylon as I would also like to get to the bottom of that eventually! . S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 No doubt Eric will be along in a minute to put me right but in this instance I think you are wrong Mike. The material used is nylon based. Here in the UK the cable is called Litz. It was developed by our national phone company at least fifty years ago to be used in patch cords in the phone exchange. It was not made to be soldered but crimped and to this day if you buy a patch cord with tip, ring and sleeve jack on each end it is crimped not soldered. The Litz is cotton covered and is very flexible and I use it from the mic in a Rycote basket to the top of the pole.These are so successful that Rycote are just about to start marketing such a cable. In the absence of the specialised crimping tooling we all have to solder it and the best way is to trim the "nylon" before you tin the conductor as opposed to letting the soldering iron melt it Malcolm Davies. A.m.p.s. CAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 I clean all that nylon stuff out of the way so I'm only soldering the metal core to the connector etc..--leaving the nylon in place will make the solder joint weaker. The main prob I have with cables that are heavily "fattened" with nylon or other material is that they usually have very thin conductors, so you have to strain relief the shit out of any repair or connection you make, since the conductors won't take any weight at all. (Example: Sony headphone cables.) philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVUrlacher Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 http://www.calmont.com/flexible-wire-cable.php PVC & Silicone insulation fibres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVUrlacher Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 http://www.mogamicable.com/category/bulk/ultra_flex_mini/ Also true here (PVC) with a more familiar company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeKai Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Many thanks Malcolm and Philip(and you AV). To expand on my initial post I am of course aware that any contaminants will affect the solder joint, my concern has been (as philip highlighted) that the remaining copper wire is very thin, so once tinned it will be brittle and (i believe) it may break in the field. in trying to "force tin" the connectors I was hoping for an ideal nylon(*) core coated in tinned copper that might be sturdier once secured to the connector terminals. Thankfully many of the miniature XLR connectors, even the chinese switchcraft copies, allow the opportunity for excellent strain relief with the included crimping bracket (terminology*). I know that the sanken cos 11 comes with this kind of cable, as do a number of the sony personal mics, so it's interesting that it was originally designed for crimping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeKai Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Are any of you folks burning the fibres away? Some of them are immune to even my sharpest pliers and I often end up with a fluffy looking mix of leftover fibres and copper wire. If so are you cleaning off the black burnt gunk the same way I am? I'm looking to get the fibres out of the way so I can work, but as we all know in soldering, cleanliness is next to godliness, so I'm not 100% pleased with the burning method as I'm paranoid it will contaminate my joint... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Mogami also uses Polypropylene to serve their thin wires. I twist the copper with my fingers in a way that splays the plastic strands out, then burn them off quickly with a lighter. A quick flash of the flame is usually enough to melt them away without affecting the insulation or the copper. Like Phillip said, strain relief is more critical with these types of wire as the individual strand size gets smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Davies Amps CAS Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Are any of you folks burning the fibres away? Some of them are immune to even my sharpest pliers and I often end up with a fluffy looking mix of leftover fibres and copper wire. If so are you cleaning off the black burnt gunk the same way I am? I'm looking to get the fibres out of the way so I can work, but as we all know in soldering, cleanliness is next to godliness, so I'm not 100% pleased with the burning method as I'm paranoid it will contaminate my joint... If you can get hold of CK tools they make an excellent pair of electricians scissors which will make short shrift of the nylon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted March 22, 2014 Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 Wandering Ear has it spot on, that's exactly the way I do it. I've never cleaned the wires after the burn regardless of what the fibre is made from, they take tinning without a problem. Filling the connector solder cups before connecting the wire is a must for fast clean solid connections. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeKai Posted March 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2014 If you can get hold of CK tools they make an excellent pair of electricians scissors which will make short shrift of the nylon. I'll have a look into it. Thanks Malcolm. Wandering Ear has it spot on, that's exactly the way I do it. I've never cleaned the wires after the burn regardless of what the fibre is made from, they take tinning without a problem. Filling the connector solder cups before connecting the wire is a must for fast clean solid connections. Eric Thanks for the advice Eric, I'll try to put it to good use! Thanks to everyone for your responses - this is by far and away my favourite section on the site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanWBS Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 When wireing a Sanken Cos 11 mic for example to a TA5F I often use a very small diameter of heat shrink on each of the wired pins to make sure the individual wires are more secure. Plus it makes the job look very neat anthough not necessary. I also find that when seperating the copper wire from the fibers that if I gently brush the tips of the wire to one side the fibers tend to spring back making them easier to seperate. Not tried burning the fibers off though so may have to try this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Nathan, be careful when burning the stands off of a cos11, the wires are so small they will burn too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathanWBS Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Nathan, be careful when burning the stands off of a cos11, the wires are so small they will burn too. Thanks for the heads up, We have a few duds laying around so I shall have to try it out with those first. If anything I may just stick to what I know and play it safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Twist & tin the wires before soldering into the connector, makes life a bit easier and eliminates stray strand shorts. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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