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Shooting indoors in a hardwalled room with no wall treatment is going to make getting intelligible dialog tough no matter what the action or script is.   If actually understanding the words being spoken (if there are words being spoken) is important to anyone who has financial control of these projects, then they should find a way to treat the "sound stage" being used so that a very simple audio setup will work well.  (IE one mic, maybe on a boom, maybe on a stand, maybe on the camera.)   If a boom is used then some way for the person holding it to hear what they are doing should be contrived, otherwise they will never learn how to do the job quietly and accurately.  The better recorders/mixers will make for quieter tracks (possibly not a big consideration in this sort of movie), they will also hold screaming peaks better, which very well might be an issue.   The most important thing is for someone to listen critically while  the recording is being made, and act to make the recording as good as they can.  A great deal of this sort of video is shot by one-person crews with a handheld camera, camera mic and no audio monitoring whatsoever.  Just hearing what you are doing while shooting, will be a big step up.

 

p

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Welcome dollsfoto: " (I am especially afraid of Mr. Michaels). "

thanks for your opening disclaimer, and don't be afraid, as, although I am 24% Hungarian, I won't come out after you...

 

" I think that usually the problem when asking for best setup is that there is not exact specification of needs and conditions, I will try to be as specific as I can, but with my limited knowledge it will be pretty difficult: "

very true, and it takes years of experience to gain years of experience...

" Do I really need a professional boom operator considering the circumstances? "

as you have come to a professional forum, we professionals think and discuss in professional terms, and, BTW, there is plenty of $$ to be made in the "Adult Films" marketplace, and good crews should be paid properly, as well...

In you case, a lot of trial and error will be involved, no matter what the pros here tell you, and some appropriate book learning would still apply...

 

So far, I am writing as I read your initial.posting, and have also figured out you are not really a sound person, or even candidate, but just want to make your movies; that's fine, go ahead, and frankly a lot of the Adult Movies have terrible sound, and few even care!

 

there is no "magic microphone", and you do not really need much equipment, or professional equipment. I personally prefer the Tascam line (or Marantz)  over anything called Zoom... want to be a cheap snob? NAGRA Pico!!

 

" I was really struggling at first to post on this forum full of pros, because of the harsh comments I previously read and was not sure that it would be a good idea to ask for "what is the best?" "

well thanks for acknowledging your standing as a virgin at this, and there is no answer to what is best...

you define your parameters, set your priorities, and make some choices,  then comes trial and error. 

< bluntness warning > who are you asking about lenses, cameras, lighting, shots, editing, music, and so much more? 

A way back in my career, when I was still pretty hungry for work and income, I got asked to do an Adult Movie, and offered a decent rate;  I asked an experienced mentor if I should take the job (or would it ruin my budding career??) and his response was: "you aren't going to be acting in it, are you? OK, work is work"*.  It paid a lot better than low-no budget crap I was being offered, and I actually made a lot of money working on Adult Movies, and in fact was often working for one of the top production companies in the porn industry, and not ashamed to say so.

 

and of course, if your initial results at recording production sound are not satisfactory, you can pretty easily improve it in post, even recreate and/or replace it...so your risk in trial and error is somewhat minimal...

 

Is this a hoax/joke/setup/troll ?? Are you yanking our collective chains ??  there are a number of inconsistencies in the OP, but  this thread has the potential to be fun!!

 

OK, now, I'll start reading the reply you have gotten...

and probably have a bit more to add.

 

and

" but what length do you recommend? "

what a great question from a pornographer!! ::)

 

first edit: * I see Henchman said that, too, but this was years before I knew him!

 

second edit: This is so true, I just have to quote it from my CPF JB: " "Why can't you professionals give me a nonprofessional way to do the job professionally?" "

 

also agree that any improvement in the recording space will be beneficial, and probably more important than sound equipment...

Other groups may be more helpful, of course,  and some books that might provide some good, though non-specific to porn,  information include:

Jay Rose's at www.dplay.com, and Rick Viers' bible at www.mwp.com

 

Oh, yeah, and there are some professional (and some amateur) microphones with variable lengths... they can start of short and be made long... (drum riff) as required for the circumstances...

and...

always practice safe sound!

Edited by studiomprd
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my 2 cents: get a mix-pre and a short hypercardioid mic (MKH50, etc.or something cheaper like an Oktava/Rode). the mixer will make your workflow much more flexible and much more in control. feed a cable to the main C100 (or both cameras). back it up on a Zoom (DR100, sony whatever). I'm guessing you are feeding video out of the camera via cable, so an added sound cable will be manageable (or, if you have the budget, get a Sennheiser G3 wireless system to feed sound wirelessly to a camera (the G3 could be useful with a lav mic too).. get someone to help you with the boom. give them headphones so they can hear what they are doing. A short pole is better for you in small rooms. Put mics on the cameras if you can, recorded on a separate track than the boom. For non-dialogue scenes, just stay out of everybody's way (maybe put a mic on a stand out of shot). +1 for what Phillip said about making the room less reverberant. Beds and pillows help to absorb sound and they can be in shot. If you are shooting in a bathroom, plant a mic and go read a book. good luck.

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my 2 cents: get a mix-pre and a short hypercardioid mic (MKH50, etc.or something cheaper like an Oktava/Rode). the mixer will make your workflow much more flexible and much more in control. feed a cable to the main C100 (or both cameras). back it up on a Zoom (DR100, sony whatever). I'm guessing you are feeding video out of the camera via cable, so an added sound cable will be manageable (or, if you have the budget, get a Sennheiser G3 wireless system to feed sound wirelessly to a camera (the G3 could be useful with a lav mic too).. get someone to help you with the boom. give them headphones so they can hear what they are doing. A short pole is better for you in small rooms. Put mics on the cameras if you can, recorded on a separate track than the boom. For non-dialogue scenes, just stay out of everybody's way (maybe put a mic on a stand out of shot). +1 for what Phillip said about making the room less reverberant. Beds and pillows help to absorb sound and they can be in shot. If you are shooting in a bathroom, plant a mic and go read a book. good luck.

In a bathroom, towels are your friends.

p

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Actress :"I think that usually the problem when asking for best setup is that there is not exact specification of needs and conditions, I will try to be as specific as I can, but with my limited knowledge it will be pretty difficult.."..Actor:" Please bear in mind that I can not always get physically close ..." Sorry,sorry...As we say overhere : an open goal.But anyway dollsfoto keep it a simple as you can,sound is really secondary to camera in this case! 

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I can see the professional credits now:  Dollsfoto movies presents, a dollsfoto production of a Dollsfoto movie, Produced by Dollsfoto, written by Dollsfoto, DoP Dollsfoto, and directed by Dollsfoto.

and we'd expect Dollsfoto to use a real name in a professional forum where s/he is asking us for help..?

Edited by studiomprd
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Also think about planting a mic somewhere closer to the action than you might get with your boom. If they don't "talk" at all I wouldn't see a problem in putting a boom on a stand and moving it a bit as needed, as those shots won't really be that short, will they? I mean, holding a boom for three minutes can be long and painful, especially if you're not experienced.

 

Senator, is there a list somwehere of the adult movies you worked on? You probably used a pseudonym, will you share that, as you're "not ashamed to say so"?

 

edit: jeremy was quicker than me...

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Sorry for late answers, but moderator needed to approve my posts. Now I can reply quicker. 

 

 

I've had good results with the Audix SCX1. It's a good value. I've never done a XXX job but I've done plenty of love scenes and nude scenes, (as I'm sure plenty of people here have as well) and have found it to be quite challenging at times. I'd say that's it's never a good idea to mount a boom during production. Even in an interview situation the talent will most definitely move off pattern let alone a...

Ps. If you need some stock ADR I can probably get it from my upstairs neighbor. Bwaahahaha.

Good luck.

 

Thanks. You are right that the talent moves and maybe moves even more as during an interview situation. Definitely will try to work with boom operator, however as I stated previously we need to be as compact crew as it is possible. I heard some good things about Audix, but some prefer Audio Technica 4053b which is easier to obtain in EU. But as you can see lot of member suggest going for MKH 50...much more expensive, but I understand, that mic usually last longer as cameras, so it is a good investment. Even if painful at the beginning.

 

When work was slow, I was paid a fair rate for mixing some of the girls given wild videos.
The checks cashed fine, and paid my bills.

Work is work.

 

This is exactly why we work - to pay our bills...for me money is money and until is is legal I do not really care where it comes from. As you said work is work. In Hungary I can not work - make videos - for Hollywood movies for obvious reasons, but we have here a lot of adult models/talents. I think it is important to use what you have - and the because Hungary is not rich country a lot of models are working also for adult.

 

Shooting indoors in a hardwalled room with no wall treatment is going to make getting intelligible dialog tough no matter what the action or script is.   If actually understanding the words being spoken (if there are words being spoken) is important to anyone who has financial control of these projects, then they should find a way to treat the "sound stage" being used so that a very simple audio setup will work well.  (IE one mic, maybe on a boom, maybe on a stand, maybe on the camera.)   If a boom is used then some way for the person holding it to hear what they are doing should be contrived, otherwise they will never learn how to do the job quietly and accurately.  The better recorders/mixers will make for quieter tracks (possibly not a big consideration in this sort of movie), they will also hold screaming peaks better, which very well might be an issue.   The most important thing is for someone to listen critically while  the recording is being made, and act to make the recording as good as they can.  A great deal of this sort of video is shot by one-person crews with a handheld camera, camera mic and no audio monitoring whatsoever.  Just hearing what you are doing while shooting, will be a big step up.

 

p

 

Thanks very much, it is good idea to hear about other aspects of sound, not only considering what gear to use. I definitely leaning towards using a mixer not to clip sound. I am really trying to learn how to produce quality video, quality sound etc. It is in definition not that typical "amateur" movie most of members imagine. I would like to step further and make something that does not look like a "one man band" movie.

 

Welcome dollsfoto: " (I am especially afraid of Mr. Michaels). "

thanks for your opening disclaimer, and don't be afraid, as, although I am 24% Hungarian, I won't come out after you...

 

...

always practice safe sound!

 

Thanks for coming and contributing in the thread. I was sure that you are very experienced member of the forum and that is the reason why you are usually....how to say it...not the most helpful with new amateur contributors. I am a photographer, so I would imagine that I would do a same if someone would be asking what camera should they get.

 

"So far, I am writing as I read your initial.posting, and have also figured out you are not really a sound person, or even candidate, but just want to make your movies; that's fine, go ahead, and frankly a lot of the Adult Movies have terrible sound, and few even care!"

 

You are right, I am not trying to pretend that I am a sound person or I would like to be a boom operator/mixer/sound person in the future. I only would like to learn what are the basic for getting adequate/good sound in adult industry without getting the answer - hire a professional. I would like to know what to buy to start in adult.

 

"there is no "magic microphone", and you do not really need much equipment, or professional equipment. I personally prefer the Tascam line (or Marantz)  over anything called Zoom... want to be a cheap snob? NAGRA Pico!!"

 

I am not trying to get the magic microphone, I know that it does not exist. As I already stated I am trying to learn how can we get the best sound and what equipment to obtain to be able to record quality audio. I know that it is not about gear, but we have to start somewhere. This why it is not strictly a gear thread, but I am also looking for other advice what to do, how to do. I understand that you can not teach me how to record sound properly in forum, but some insights on how it would theoretically work/how others are doing it always helps a lot. 

 

"< bluntness warning > who are you asking about lenses, cameras, lighting, shots, editing, music, and so much more? "

 

I am primarily a photographer, but I have to start doing this job - I do not really care that I have to - because I think it has potential and I can make some money. I am not expecting to be rich, I only want to pay my bills, thats it. So, I do not needed a lot of advice of what video gear to get, because it is somehow related to photography. When I start to do something new I am always really enthusiastic and often can sit in front of tutorials, books hundreds of hours and another hundreds just trying out how it works. 

 

"A way back in my career, when I was still pretty hungry for work and income, I got asked to do an Adult Movie, and offered a decent rate;  I asked an experienced mentor if I should take the job (or would it ruin my budding career??) and his response was: "you aren't going to be acting in it, are you? OK, work is work"*.  It paid a lot better than low-no budget crap I was being offered, and I actually made a lot of money working on Adult Movies, and in fact was often working for one of the top production companies in the porn industry, and not ashamed to say so."

 

"here is plenty of $$ to be made in the "Adult Films" marketplace, and good crews should be paid properly, as well..."

 

The times changed and it is no longer a "goldmine", it used to be...Maybe because I am the new in the industry I am not fully aware of rates, but I have talked with few websites and I really have to consider if I am going to buy the AT 4053b or MKH50 because of the budget (those mic were just an example). With that much budget I would hire a professional and be safe on audio side, but I can not afford it. 

 

"Is this a hoax/joke/setup/troll ?? Are you yanking our collective chains ??  there are a number of inconsistencies in the OP, but  this thread has the potential to be fun!!"

 

Yes, have fut for sure, but at the same time please try to help me and not only make fun. It does not really help me :) Is this a hoax/joke/troll? You decide....do you think I would really invest so much time on asking and answering if it was for fun/trolling? No, I really do not have time to troll. Maybe there are inconsistencies in what I am asking, because I am so new that I am sometimes not even sure what I am asking, but at least I am trying to understand the audio side of doing videos.

 

"also agree that any improvement in the recording space will be beneficial, and probably more important than sound equipment...

Other groups may be more helpful, of course,  and some books that might provide some good, though non-specific to porn,  information include:

Jay Rose's at www.dplay.com, and Rick Viers' bible at www.mwp.com"

 

I will definitely check it out. Thanks for posting those links. 

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my 2 cents: get a mix-pre and a short hypercardioid mic (MKH50, etc.or something cheaper like an Oktava/Rode). the mixer will make your workflow much more flexible and much more in control. feed a cable to the main C100 (or both cameras). back it up on a Zoom (DR100, sony whatever). I'm guessing you are feeding video out of the camera via cable, so an added sound cable will be manageable (or, if you have the budget, get a Sennheiser G3 wireless system to feed sound wirelessly to a camera (the G3 could be useful with a lav mic too).. get someone to help you with the boom. give them headphones so they can hear what they are doing. A short pole is better for you in small rooms. Put mics on the cameras if you can, recorded on a separate track than the boom. For non-dialogue scenes, just stay out of everybody's way (maybe put a mic on a stand out of shot). +1 for what Phillip said about making the room less reverberant. Beds and pillows help to absorb sound and they can be in shot. If you are shooting in a bathroom, plant a mic and go read a book. good luck.

 

Thanks, I think this was one of the most useful post I have read. Currently this setup is what I am actually considering to start with - C100 - MixPre - MKH50. I was not thinking about back up on Zoom or other device, thank you really much it is so obvious, but I was not thinking about it until now :) Yes, there will be a cable to field monitor, so an additional cable will not be a problem. 

 

"get someone to help you with the boom. give them headphones so they can hear what they are doing."

 

I know that usually the boom operator/mixer is the same person at least on lower budget films. But if a boom operator will be just a friend how to deal with this. Will I be able to do the "mixing" (adjusting gain) while doing the video/camera work or is it much better to have a boom operator doing also the mixing?

 

Sennheiser G3 can be added later, thanks for pointing out this option too. It is very useful for me to get this kind of responses :)

 

In a bathroom, towels are your friends.

p

 

Mainly bedrooms will be used, but nice to know in future. I will also try to make any room more "sound recording friendly".

 

 

Actress :"I think that usually the problem when asking for best setup is that there is not exact specification of needs and conditions, I will try to be as specific as I can, but with my limited knowledge it will be pretty difficult.."..Actor:" Please bear in mind that I can not always get physically close ..." Sorry,sorry...As we say overhere : an open goal.But anyway dollsfoto keep it a simple as you can,sound is really secondary to camera in this case! 

 

I am not really asking for what is the best, maybe it was even a bad idea to state it in my first post. Rather I am trying to figure out how to start out with what kind of setup and how to use it. Yes, in this case sound does not play that important rule, but I can imagine that getting good sound is very important and can be quite difficult in some situations. This is why I am here, trying to keep it simple, but squeeze out the most of the sound part of the movie :)

 

I can see the professional credits now:  Dollsfoto movies presents, a dollsfoto production of a Dollsfoto movie, Produced by Dollsfoto, written by Dollsfoto, DoP Dollsfoto, and directed by Dollsfoto.

and we'd expect her/him to use a real name in a professional forum where s/he is asking us for help..?

 

Mike, you are not far from truth. Also as a photographer I am trying to do everything by myself, because I know that when I am doing it it is done properly. I am doing photography for "few" years now and have a pretty good equipment, but still I am the one who is lighting the scene, carrying the bags, making the marketing etc. I know that in movies it will not be possible and I need a crew, but I think it is not actually bad to know what others are doing. So, maybe if I hire a "professional" sound guy and will see that he knows less then me....Mr. Wexler was also pointing out that I am not using my real name. In other case I would, but you know, in adult we are trying to protect our privacy as it is possible, because not "everyone" understands that this is a proper job/work...you know what I mean.

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Mkh 50 will be your best option, most likely. If it's always the same room you might consider using some plant mics

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

We will be using different rooms, different locations almost every time. Another vote for MKH50, thanks.

 

Also think about planting a mic somewhere closer to the action than you might get with your boom. If they don't "talk" at all I wouldn't see a problem in putting a boom on a stand and moving it a bit as needed, as those shots won't really be that short, will they? I mean, holding a boom for three minutes can be long and painful, especially if you're not experienced.

 

Senator, is there a list somwehere of the adult movies you worked on? You probably used a pseudonym, will you share that, as you're "not ashamed to say so"?

 

edit: jeremy was quicker than me...

 

As you can see you are not the first one thinking about planting mic somewhere closer. The problem with this is that I know almost nothing about booming, mixing and microphones (watched few videos, read a lot of forum post etc), but I know even less on how these planted mics works, what mic are used etc.

 

I think that one "position"/shot will be recorded for 10-15 minutes, it does not seem to me a long time for holding a boom, but maybe just because I have never done it ;)

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There is something true in this. But it is interesting that every time some newbie ask a question here almost always the answer is - "hire a professional boom operator/mixer". Ok, if the budget allows and there is opportunity to do it why not, but there are times when it is not possible. But what is someone - me? - wants to learn how to do it and I am not saying that I want to be a professional in this field, but I would like to do at least a decent job while dealing with the audio. I do not understand why most forum members are not trying to give at least a basic advice on a gear and how to use it properly. I really want to learn and I do not expect miracles at the beggining, but it does not help me a lot when some forum members make joke of me and post for example "condoms on the mics?" - that reveals something about the quality of the person.

So let me see if I have this right: You don't think folks here deserve to make a living, but you do think we owe you help in doing a mediocre job at a craft we've honed for years and take great pride in.

You say it is about you wanting to learn? Well, there is tons of excellent information on this site that will help you do just that without appearing to be a troll. But, still, you seem more invested in criticizing anyone who chooses not to indulge you than learning from those who have offered input. Is this the result of some persecution complex or are you just trying to see how much of a rise you can get from people here? If it's the former, you may be well suited for playing the submissive in your films.

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I'd go for the CS3e, the MKH50, though a wonderful mic, performs less well further away from the subject. The CS3e is the closest thing to a one size fits all solution, I use mine more than any other mic. In moderately skilled hands it will give you good, even 'professional' results.

 

 

As for the recording method, it really depends what resources you have in post. A Sound Devices Mix Pre D will sound great, not cost much and interface with the camera fine. Separate recording brings extra time and cost, sometimes with no benefits.

 

Thank for the comment. I am even with MKH50 a bit worried that it is too directional, but at the beginning I was also thinking about picking up the CS3e (a bit problematic to obtain in EU). The problem is that I need to record the voice of the model and the "action sounds" at the same time. That would mean maybe I need two mics, one for voice and the other for action. I am not sure.

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I knew this thread was going to be entertaining.

But in all seriousness @Dollsfoto if someone has all the "equipment" to be in your films I am sure that doesn't mean they are good at it. Same goes with our craft, it takes not only experience but Passion(for sound) I would say. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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So let me see if I have this right: You don't think folks here deserve to make a living, but you do think we owe you help in doing a mediocre job at a craft we've honed for years and take great pride in.

You say it is about you wanting to learn? Well, there is tons of excellent information on this site that will help you do just that without appearing to be a troll. But, still, you seem more invested in criticizing anyone who chooses not to indulge you than learning from those who have offered input. Is this the result of some persecution complex or are you just trying to see how much of a rise you can get from people here? If it's the former, you may be well suited for playing the submissive in your films.

 

No, I have never said that what you are doing is not a craft and that you do not deserve to get properly paid for it. The more I learn about sound recording the more I admire you as professionals who can deal with the sound part of the movies. You have my respect for that. But approach of some of the members is what I do not really like - why do they have to show me that I know nothing compared to them and make joke of me?

 

I am really not invested in criticizing anyone who chooses to post a comment which is somehow helpful. Yes, have fun here about this topic, joke about it, but please add some useful info. If someone is just making fun of the topic and me why do you call me a troll and not them?

 

"If it's the former, you may be well suited for playing the submissive in your films."

 

I have not tried to insult you in any way, so why would you? If you read my reaction on your post I told you that I partially agree with you. I have made a statement that some members here are making only fun of this. If you read it, I did not mention it was you and I did not mean it was you. If it seemed to you that it is addressed to you then I am sorry, I did not meant you.

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I knew this thread was going to be entertaining.

But in all seriousness @Dollsfoto if someone has all the "equipment" to be in your films I am sure that doesn't mean they are good at it. Same goes with our craft, it takes not only experience but Passion(for sound) I would say. :)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Jeremy, I understand. And as I previously said, if the budget would allow I would hire a professional. If I were living in LA, NY or other big city then it would be easier as here where we do not have professional film studios, therefore I suppose not many audio pros. Also we need to keep the crew as small as possible, because it is a totally different as doing a proper movie. There you have x days and you are there x days in row. Here we have to do a shoot during one day and no one knows where we are going next. It is almost impossible to find a pro audio guy who is willing to work like this. :)

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If you're based in the EU (?) checkout http://www.bblist.co.uk for used equipment.

A mkh50 & SD mixpre/302 (don't forget to budget for cables etc) can be found easily in the 2nd hand market, save some money and go used. The up side is that you'll probably not lose any money when selling the kit later if things don't work out financially.

Here's a great sounding kit for 500gbp, complete with mixer/bag/cables. http://www.bblist.co.uk/item.php?item=41746

 

 

I'll let you do the further searching, good luck.

 

Grant.

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And if you can't get a boom operator who has got at least some experience, I would not get one at all. A "friend" won't be any help at all and could actually make it worse than a stand. Booming for a take length of 15 minutes, as you said, will actually be very difficult, impossible for a newbie. Although it depends on the position ... of the boom-op.

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If you want good results, get a pro. If it doesn't matter, try to do it yourself or get an amateur. As many of the threads here suggest: you get what you pay for.

 

I would hire a boom op and a sound mixer for this sort of job, because I can imagine lavs aren't going to be very useful in many circumstances, so having a top notch boom op is key, but having a mixer with the right equipment will also be very important (note most boom ops don't have equipment, sound mixers do), because having a variety of boom mics, as well as plant mics and some serious tricks up their sleeve is whats going to save the film.

 

Or you can just have bad audio and re dub everything….

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