Lav rustle "depends" on type of medium?

[Tim M]

Through my experience working with other mixers and working various different mediums...is lav rustle generally acceptable to a lesser degree in certain mediums. For example...reality is reality. There is no wardrobe department and I've seen some lav rustle I would immediately attend to say in a feature environment be passed over because it is reality and as long as they don't have to say subtitle the damn thing anything goes. This does not say being lazy is acceptable on micing talent...but it seems like that the point is to make sure the damn thing doesn't fall off and it sounds decent. What has been your experience?

[codyman]

I mean, try to make sure you get as little as possible.  I always make sure I have the right lav for the job (forward facing vs up etc.).  

 

But my biggest piece of advise is to BEFRIEND YOUR WARDROBE DEPARTMENT!  The guys/gals there will usually be more than willing to help with mic placement / wardrobe concerns (at least they have been in my experience).  Yesterday I was on set and we had the lead actress in this rather revealing, tight ball gown dress that was somewhat transparent throughout the midriff front and back, but because we have a kick ass wardrobe department, the gal help me navigate the wire down the back zipper and carefully (keyword CAREFULLY) even sewed the wire in place so it wouldn't be revealed.  The lav sounded great and it saved the scene from certain ADR (ballroom of 50 extras dancing around with dual cameras / wide shots / no way to boom).

[Tim M]

I mean, try to make sure you get as little as possible.  I always make sure I have the right lav for the job (forward facing vs up etc.).  

 

But my biggest piece of advise is to BEFRIEND YOUR WARDROBE DEPARTMENT!  The guys/gals there will usually be more than willing to help with mic placement / wardrobe concerns (at least they have been in my experience).  Yesterday I was on set and we had the lead actress in this rather revealing, tight ball gown dress that was somewhat transparent throughout the midriff front and back, but because we have a kick ass wardrobe department, the gal help me navigate the wire down the back zipper and carefully (keyword CAREFULLY) even sewed the wire in place so it wouldn't be revealed.  The lav sounded great and it saved the scene from certain ADR (ballroom of 50 extras dancing around with dual cameras / wide shots / no way to boom).

Thanks Cody, but I mean without a wardrobe department and dealing with real people and not actors.

[chris_bollard]

Keep trying as long as the time and situation allows until the result is acceptable. It's a slippery path to let clothing noise go based on the assumption that because it's a reality show the acceptable quality is less.

Edited June 22, 2014 by chris_bollard

[Tim M]

Keep trying as long as the time and situation allows until the result is acceptable. It's a slippery path to let clothing noise go based on the assumption that because it's a reality show the acceptable quality is less.

Yes Chris. Same here, but then there becomes a point where unless you get the guys shirt off or you get him to shave his chest or wear a different shirt there is nothing you can do. Hairy guy wearing a shirt that has two sheets of polyester instead of one in it...with a lav on a reality show, you are pretty much done for. I guess if you know the producer and you catch it at the beginning of the day you can ask for them to put on something different.

[Philip Perkins]

I think you have the jist of the "hardworking-Zen" approach.  In many many situations anymore there is no wardrobe dept or they (she) is so overwhelmed by the number of people they have to deal with (while maybe doing makeup/hair too), the talent are wearing their own clothes so you really can't cut them up and they may not have any alt choices with them.  So you keep working on the rig as long/much as you can while knowing that some days you get the bear, some days the bear gets you.

 

philp

[Rob Lewis]

Short answer YES, but we always drive for completely clean. Reality shows give us no choice and many times can become the mother of invention. Creating rigs for certain wardrobe situations that maybe the feature guy does not have up his/her sleeve. Most reality, all they care about is that they can hear it, and if its bad they will subtitle it. They get away with a lot.

Either way, I do my best to make it clean and sound good no matter what the project. Fact is, there are good days and bad days.

[al mcguire]

>some days you get the bear,

>some days the bear gets you.

 

love it

[stevegrider]

There are times in reality when the subjects are asked to do activities when lav rustle is inevitable. Since in some shows, there is no "take two", it is what it is.

[CraigF]

Is a hiddem mic realy nesesary when the transmitter is showing?
Those Rehab clips would better MOS and some 70's Funk playing, just saying

[Rasmus Wedin]

As someone who works in reality about 90% of the time, I struggle with this every day . No wardobe department, no rigg time, and often 3-4 hidden lavs mixed to a single track, russling on just one mic can mean disaster . Of caurse there are different levels of hell, and all is relative, so.....

 

While I know some mixers sort of have this "whatever, it sounds crap, who cares..."-attitude, I will certainly not let cloth russle slip if I can think of a way to get rid of it on the spot. Like adding an extra peice of dubbel sided tape, when the host is asking the producer for a line or something.

 

What I usually do when I mic people up is I will put "russle-free sound" before the mic being 100% hidden, if it's an either or situation. Say, the mic will be hidden if you view talent from straight on, but if you move to the side, you'll see it (if your looking for it). Of course this is a conversation I have with the producers but usually, they will agree with this.

[Carlos Corral]

It can be tough especially in long interviews.  

 

I did a gig recently where we were doing some pretty emotional interviews.  Some of the interviewees were nervous so depending on the vibe I got, I did what I could hiding the lav without making them feel too uncomfortable. Had some rustle hear and there and the lav fell a few times due to body temp, sweat, and heat.  I was unsure whether to stop since the subjects got a little nervous and emotional settings.  I made a call and let the producer finish the interview.

 

You may think that's crazy, but my other interview mic was the CS3e, so I wasn't too worried about the lav.

 

I just make sure I note everything in the sound reports.  Hopefully, the post peeps know to use the boom over the lav, but who knows these days.

[studiomprd]

tim: " What has been your experience? "

my experience is: it depends...

and I am still befuddled with all the requirements for hiding on the so-called reality crap...

and in ATL,  DPA sowed off their new self-micing model for allowing talent to mic themselves properly <not hidden>...

[RScottATL]

My workflow for reality centers a lot around dressing & redressing mics to be mostly invisible and sound clean.

Unfortunately, as mentioned, frequently there is only time allotted to place each mic, with few adjustments and tweaks. Also, many scenes will go with whatever happens, even if it sounds or looks a mess.

In reality TV, establishing a good relationship with the director/producer is key, because they will give you the go ahead to use extra time to adjust mics and delay a scene by minutes to get what you need, and they will be the one to tell you if they will stop the scene to allow you to fix a troublesome mic. They also will be able to approve when you tell them you need to remove or treat jewelry or impossible wardrobe choices.

Reality will bear some clothing rustle, and will occasionally be perfectly fine with a horrible sounding mic, though I will ALWAYS attempt to intervene if it is anything beyond a rustle that sounds like the actual clothing. If the producer shoots me down, then so be it, my job is to set them up for the best possible *chance* at getting good sound and to inform them when their sound track is suffering in quality, but most shows will not give you the authority to take the time needed to make every adjustment you may need, or hold up production for tweaks or noisy backgrounds.

Percentage-wise, I'd say that 90% of my placements work the first time or need one to two tweaks to get them sounding good. Every now and then there is a particularly horrible outfit that needs extra tweaks or never ends up sounding as clean as I'd prefer.

It's quite important to be proactive and ahead of the game to get good sound in reality. Have your lavs prepped as early as you possibly can, even doing it at the end of the previous production day. Mic your talent as soon as you can, and have your rig on hand to QC the placement while you're doing it. Approach the producer early in the show to request every primary cast member be aware of what fabrics are no-no's and to bring a second top option to set.

With three or more cameras in scenes and often minimal, crummy lighting schemes, booming is often impossible if the lav sound is unusable. If you ever have that nagging "I think I should step in", always do it.

Many other forms are far more forgiving and allow you the authority to get clean audio. Reality is reality. Often you're the only one on set who even cares what it sounds like, unfortunately. Producers are more concerned with not getting notes from post, staying on schedule and keeping the cast happy.

[studiomprd]

"reality" programs often include open captioning!!

[orionflood]

"reality" programs often include open captioning!!

Unfortunately from my experience, of all the mediums I've dealt with mixers getting fired off from reality shows is the most prevalent. Senator will say well good, but we all like to work...so open captions may be fine, but unless politics plays into the mixer in questions hand then he could get fired from a situation where he had no control.

[chris_bollard]

Captions are often used for dramatic impact in reality as much as they are to make more clear what is being said.

[andstrumental]

"Sometimes you get the bear. Sometimes the bear gets you." I'm getting this tattooed on my forehead

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[atheisticmystic]

Never stop experimenting with "tying your flies". When you have opportunities (Male puts a plaid flannel over t-shirt hiding a t-shirt lav "silhouette") cut a new rig, try a new tape configuration, put an overcover on, etc. I just finished four months of a food show, laving up the general dining public all day long; different and constantly changing wardrobe was a a target-rich environment for me.

I'm gaining on that fracking Bear, I tell you...lol.

[Reg]

I've always thought though, why hide a lav unless it's a drama/feature? For reality, people obviously know it's for TV, and surely getting the sound good everytime and seeing the lav or 'tie clip' produces a far quicker and smoother production, when the shoot is fast paced? Or is it down to producers/directors viewpoint that it spoils their shots, and don't take into account just how much of a dark-art hiding lavs actually is, or how much additional time is sometimes needed? What IS the dividing line between hiding and plain view lavs?

[Johnny Karlsson]

Or is it down to producers/directors viewpoint?

Yes.

[carbonhobbit]

I think it comes down to the idea of since you don't see the camera or the lights in the shot, you shouldn't see the mic. Just the other day I saw a report on powder caffeine where they hid all the mics. Made the news story almost unreal in my eyes. The average viewer wouldn't notice either way. Other times they work real hard to get the mic with the flag to id their station.

 

Scott.

[Olle Sjostrom]

I'd say it depends on the level of immersion. Some documentaries strive to be very "real", some strive to be "true" and transparent. TV shows can also have different levels of immersion. The show I just finished is supposed to portray Sweden in the early 1900s,so all the technical stuff had to be hidden so that the viewers are truly immersed in that setting, even though it's a classic reality "survivor-type" show.

[Freeheel]

For an alternative answer to your question Rhysgriff11; In my world I almost always hide the lavs, and find they usually sound better properly placed under a t-shirt rather than clipped to a neckband and exposed to the wind...

Cheers,

Brent Calkin

[Reg]

Yes I guess there is no definitive line between hiding and plain view. I agree a well placed lav under a cotton tshirt does produce good results, and I guess the level of required immersion does depend on the production. I still think it's better to place lav (especially in run'gun) wherever it sounds best, be in plain view or under clothing away from wind. In my experience there's only so much time afforded to you!