Jan McL Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 Been trying to come up with some things I could do for an actor/director to make the job easier in the transition between one hat and the other. Something beyond having the IFB transmitter at video assist and seamlessly fed either from their playback rig or live sound. Maybe work with video assist to have a monitor/Comtek just off camera. Draw a blank beyond that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 What I've done (and that got me burned, wrote about it in another thread), and it's worked great for me apart from that one time, is to feed the camera only, and then go all SDI into whatever recorder or monitor is in video village. Director can have a set of phones hanging there. If he /she wants a receiver bit you can make a separate feed from video village. This enables playback from either camera or playback machine in video village, like a PIX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 At least that works great in Sweden, where teams are much smaller and there's transparency between departments and no real hierarchy... Can't hurt to try perhaps? It does make one vulnerable in a sense, of something happens at the camera, all the sound in all the chain down from the camera will have no sound. But then I've never ever had an issue with this setup, except for the one time where I think the first ac screwed me over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 28, 2014 Report Share Posted June 28, 2014 I know you asked this question this morning and I probably wasn't too helpful (even though I just finished working with an actor, Warren Beatty, who wad directing. Our Video Assist person, Goldy, uses the PSU-3 Video Assist unit (which is amazing) made playback available as easy and accessible as possible, right on the set the moment they said "cut". The PSU-3 has a full featured iPad interface (individual playback for each camera, excellent audio, very little if any latency, lots of other features. I think the Video Assist person is going to be the person who is most helpful for the Actor - Director and anything you can do as the Sound Mixer to help expedite that service will be very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Nice post Jeff! Commercials that I currently work on avoid the cost of a video split person and rely on a PIX 240, look at the picture and ignore the sound!!! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks for the ideas and plan confirmations, dear colleagues. Since you bring it up, Olle, concur that sending audio to camera for IFB purposes is risky for the camera department x-factor you cite. That will most certainly be one option, depending on TBD workflow that includes not knowing whether there will in fact be a video assist position (yup, Mike, video assist -- and DIT -- go the way of the aardvark). Can't imagine there won't be in this case given a confirmed director/actor position. Glad to have the make/model of a first-rate system, Jeff; will make intersecting with video assist well a priority. Check. Continue to sleep on the issue, trying to think outside the box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Another possibility, Jan. Aja makes an SDI embedder/de-embedder box that could be lent to your video assist. It will allow him/her to add your audio to an sdi stream. Then any (dedicated for the director) video monitor with a speaker would play picture and sound. https://www.aja.com/en/products/mini-converters/hd10ama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 wyatt: " box that could be lent to your video assist " why should we buying and loaning equipment to someone else who is collecting a major package rental..? ...and can easily afford one if not already in their package ? (unless I get to bump my pkg price a bit... ) thus: I would, in friendly pre-pro discussions with Video Assist gently suggest they provide what is needed, just as Goldy did on JW's shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Tuzo Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 wyatt: " box that could be lent to your video assist " why should we buying and loaning equipment to someone else who is collecting a major package rental..? ...and can easily afford one if not already in their package ? (unless I get to bump my pkg price a bit... ) thus: I would, in friendly pre-pro discussions with Video Assist gently suggest they provide what is needed, just as Goldy did on JW's shoot. Since I know already that Jan would exercise the professionalism and tact necessary for her situation, I figured it that went without saying. So "loan" wasn't the best choice of words. Trust that I didn't mean it that way… No need to split hairs, you're deviating from the point. Back to the topic at hand: An additional thought that I had was that if your Assist could provide something along the lines of a Nebtek Microlite, you could embed audio into the microwave stream and the director/actor could receive it at his hand-held monitor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 wyatt: " you're deviating from the point " I may be splitting hairs, here, and I fully appreciate Jan's dedication to improving at her craft, and her professionalism, but is Video Assist in her department ? I do not know the NY union well enough to say, but even in LAX, there has been much consternation, and even intra-mural fighting over the Video Assist-DIT jurisdictions. clear lines of communications are appropriate, and proper use of them does begin in pre-pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 In NY, video assist is in the same local (52) as sound, grip, eclectic, prop and set medic. If the production doesn't want a video playback person, it is typically understood that there should be no playback on set except for "gate" checks and focus checks (by 1st AC). If 600 members are being asked to playback camera footage for performance or outside of those limitations, there can be an issue between the two locals. The people caught in the middle, unfortunately, are the 600 ACs. I was a film a few years ago where the production did not want to hire a video playback. The director, DP, and main actor (different people), as well as producers, put the ACs in a precarious situation. One of our ACs was hesitant to go along because they had been fined in the past for something similar (basically, 52 fines them via 600). In the end, we had a DP who was "filming" the takes live with his iPhone while and playing that back later. If production isn't hiring a video assist, I wouldn't get involved in providing sound to a makeshift circumvention. If they are hiring one, what's wrong with a simple cable (you get video, they get sound arrangement)? Josh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks, Josh, you really don't want to have issues with the folks in eclectic! but convenient that Sound + VA are the same local... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 I've come across what Josh said. I've worked with 600 camera crews don't want scratch audio on camera because it avoids them having to be playback people beyond a technical check of camera things. There's always a producer that doesn't get it and gets in a huff with me about playing back audio that's in sync with picture. Back to Jan's point.... It seems like it would be easier to put an IFB transmitter at video village (while opening a whole other can of worms). I guess that should solve delay issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Anderson Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Thanks, Josh, you really don't want to have issues with the folks in eclectic! but convenient that Sound + VA are the same local... Everyone else just wears their flair, while it's part of that department's job description. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 IME sound/video assist/DIT work very closely together on set regardless of union affiliation. We regularly and gladly pull each others' bums out of fires, our ancillary bits and bobs being what they are. That said, no video assist, I've no intention of attempting to circumvent that. What I CAN do with no VA on board is have audio playback route through Comteks at will. Seems on set video playback without a VA is a recurring bad situation that all in NYC are well aware of; have personally witnessed a few playback, VA-related BA set visits. Not cool. As for audio routing / playback / delivery I have no technical or hardware issues or questions at all, frankly; I'm looking for ideas to make being a director/actor easier. There may be none... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted June 29, 2014 Report Share Posted June 29, 2014 Are you HD or SD on your monitors? If you were SD, and used balun boxes, you could theoretically take the audio from the camera feed and put it into an extra input on your mixer and just bring in up for playback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Jan: " no video assist, " That sounds like a poor choice on the part of production. Video Assist was invented (by Joe Wachter, IATSE 695) for exactly the situation of an actor (Jerry Lewis) directing. IMO the production is tripping over uncounted dollars to save a few cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted June 30, 2014 Report Share Posted June 30, 2014 Video Assist was invented (by Joe Wachter, IATSE 695) for exactly the situation of an actor (Jerry Lewis) directing. Funny, Jerry Lewis claims HE invented it (sat down with him last year for an interview) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 Funny, Jerry Lewis claims HE invented it (sat down with him last year for an interview) Every great invention starts with an idea. It's very possible Jerry had the idea of a video tap, but then it took somebody like Joe Wachter to actually implement it. Would it have been invented if Jerry hadn't asked for it? Maybe, but I'd guess he sped up the development by a couple of years. By the same token, Desi Arnaz did not (as it's widely said) invent multicamera film production, but he definitely perfected it and made it practical for a weekly TV series. You might compare these examples to the man who actually invented the car, vs. somebody like Henry Ford. Ford didn't invent the car, but he sure perfected it in a mass-market sense and made the concept work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 thanks, Marc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shastapete Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 No doubt Marc (and Senator) just pointing out the contradiction, did not mean to discount Joe Wachter's contributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 1, 2014 Report Share Posted July 1, 2014 I have a radical suggestion: don't add more technology to the world of someone (the actor-director) who may not be used to dealing with it at all. Get them to low-fi shoot their early rehearsals (before the shoot starts) to develop their character, and, most of all, make sure they have producers, a DP and a scripty whose judgement they trust. On a low-budg dramatic production stopping for playbacks of multiple takes as in commercials will kill the schedule and the vibe. Being able to do a very occasional playback off the camera (yes, with some version of sound) will do fine, otherwise that's what dailies are for. No amount of tech will take the place of the trust the actor needs to have in their people and their own confidence that they are handling the job(s) well. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 http://pro-labs.imdb.com/name/nm0000867/?ref_=sch_int This is the guy, and some of our own who've worked with him say he's a bona fide craftsman. Had hoped to think of some things to offer him without much ado, but as Jeff suggests, all I can do is get audio to the video assist and / or be prepared to play back audio thru Comteks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted July 2, 2014 Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Jan, If in that rare time you don't have a hook up to/from video assist (it happens) you could get them an audio send via wireless. An ERX might be really nice here. Great sounding and you surely have enough firepower with your amped wifi antenna. I've know a few mixers who actually put a comtek transmitter on the video assist cart. That also means rigging the antenna on their cart everyday too. Not my cup of tea really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted July 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2014 Glad for future readers this thread has taken a turn toward audio / video assist intersection. Good input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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