justindfox Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I just upgraded my package to a 633 and just wondering (total newb question) what do you do exactly for the general LR Mix? Typically I just hand off ISO's but I know sooner or later I'll be on a job where they will want a mix. What should I have levels at? What needs to be panned where? So far I'm running boom and two wireless with possibly 4 wireless sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 It depends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Frias Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 It depends. Senator? Is that you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 It depends. I believe, for once, this is the appropriate reply. Or... sigh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 A mix is a mix... Not trying to be harsh but if you get a job that requires a mix (and I am quite puzzled that there are jobs that do not require you to provide a mix) maybe you should pass on that until such time as you get some experience mixing. A good place to start would be to take the tracks (isos) that you have done on other jobs and work on doing a mix that you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 What should I have levels at? Below clipping. Depends on who/what you're recording. ISO's are generally recorded at a level LOWER than your mix. What needs to be panned where? I do a mono mix, usually. If you're doing a 2-channel mix (not stereo!) maybe boom - left(1), lavs - right(2), or split by characters/dialouge, or alternating input channels, or something else. Depends on your destination/client/project type etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 ...I am quite puzzled that there are jobs that do not require you to provide a mix... That would be 'tracking', (what I think OP is talking about when he says 'only hands in ISOs') where they intend to pick the best mic in post, or do what happens most of the time and smoosh all the channels together into a phase-y, weirdly panned mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 This thread has officially made me feel like an old fogey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I'm continuously baffled by people who have clearly spent thousands of dollars on terrific equipment, who are without the knowledge to answer these sorts of questions, and who are without the wherewithal to do a little research without revealing themselves as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I'm continuously baffled by people who have clearly spent thousands of dollars of terrific equipment, who are without the knowledge to answer these sorts of questions, and who are without the wherewithal to do a little research without tevealing themselves as such. Something something archer something arrows. OH GOD IT'S HAPPENING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Typical 'mix' could be; If only using radio mics, and boom for atmos, mix as a split track (radio mics one leg, boom on other leg) If you're mostly booming and using radio mics for a couple of lines you can't boom, you could try mixing all onto one track (with ch1&2 thus being the same audio) If only 2x radio mics used you could split track it and mix the boom into both channels low level to add "air" into the recordings. To be honest, you could mix however way you'd like, but you're better off asking post/pm how they actually prefer to receive their "mix" tracks. Then mix accordingly Mix levels generally would be hotter than ISO levels since tracking generally requires you to leave headroom for "safety". I generally try to provide a mix around -18 to - 12dB, with limiters catching any transients Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 A few years ago, nobody would have thought about delivering just isos without a proper mono mix. A few years earlier, nobody would have been able to deliver isos. Today, sometimes it's just editorial using the mixes, and audio post claims they need just the isos. However they seem always glad when they get a good mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark kirchner Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Hi Justin, I am new to location sound/audio like you. This is my second post on this site. Your question is a valid question, but the information you seek can be found in past posts on this site and in books like Jay Rose’s Producing Great Sound for Film and Video. My recommendation to you is when you pose a question that you do more research first, write your question down on paper and live with it for a day. Then edit out any information that is not relevant. Your goal should be a “clear/clean” question, not unlike the goal of recording clear and clean audio. As an example, you mention that you have upgraded your equipment to a Sound Devices 663 mixer/recorder. By mentioning this you have added information to your question that has changed the nature of the responses given to you. Instead of getting only information on mixing and panning, the respondents are measuring the depth of your knowledge against that 663. My own response is not going to give you what you are seeking, but I hope you will see the value in what I have stated and continue your quest for knowledge and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Doing a good mix on a small control surface (like the 633) is difficult and most of us use a console type mixer... and damn near impossible if your a OMB (mixer/boom op.. typical of low budget films). In that case I would do a split track mix boom/lavs. (If a production can't live with that, they need to re-think their budget) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Happy 5th of July to all. Justin, I'm glad you're getting work but like others I'm perplexed by your post. Try pretending that you have only a one track recorder. Use the mics needed for a shot and make them sound like the picture looks. That is a basic mix. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 ... Use the mics needed for a shot and make them sound like the picture looks. ... Wow! That's the best, most succinct, approach to a good mix one could ask for. Terrific advice for a beginner and a great reminder for the more experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 justindfox (he's everywhere...) : " what do you do exactly for the general LR Mix? " you are charging your clients too much. Jusitin: " . If you're doing a 2-channel mix (not stereo!) maybe boom - left(1), lavs - right(2), " that is for Australia, and would be reversed in the Northern Hemisphere... Mark K: " Your question is a valid question, but the information you seek can be found in past posts on this site and in books like Jay Rose’s Producing Great Sound for Film and Video. " while the question is valid, this is a professional discussion group, not a "free help for the entitled newbie with shiny toys" site. Mark is correct in his suggestions; I heartily endorse his response!. and Crew has once again dazzled us with a succinct clear reply, which probably isn't what the OP expected, but is a great answer to: What is an overall mix. It also describes the job of a mixer, while Justindfox appears to be a "tracker" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Work as a trainee on a proper gig for a proper mixer. You can't become an electrician without being an apprentice first. Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Work as a trainee on a proper gig for a proper mixer. You can't become an electrician without being an apprentice All you need to be a mixer is buy some gear and low ball everyone else. You will get hired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Woodcock Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 All you need to be a mixer is buy some gear and low ball everyone else. You will get hired. If they are coming on here asking how to mix then surely you can't be one :-P Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_bollard Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Thx Crew for getting to the bones of the matter - I was struggling to work out where to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundslikejustin Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Jusitin: " . If you're doing a 2-channel mix (not stereo!) maybe boom - left(1), lavs - right(2), " that is for Australia, and would be reversed in the Northern Hemisphere... Hahaha. Sorry OP. Also, bravo Crew, that is a glorious one-liner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Childers Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Crew hit it dead on Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 I'd hate for new young members to read this thread and be frightened off and not ask any questions here for the fear that they are going to get chewed up and spit out. This place is for learning and sharing. After all that is why our founding father created this site and spends time, love and money maintaining this valuable resource. I personally learn something new here all the time and I enjoy sharing my years of knowledge - to a point... The original post was a bit beyond basic. It actually may teeter on insulting to some members here who have spent years learning and honing their craft. This basic question is something that should be covered in mixing 101. It is the equivalent to buying a fancy new car and asking someone how do you parallel park it. And what adds insult to injury is our industry has been, and is continued to be, shaken up by low balling "sound people" who come in with a shiny new sound package and work way under the standard rate that has been established for many years because either they want the work to build up their credits or they "lack the experience to charge full rate". This hurts everybody including the people who are currently under charging. That trend has set a new acceptable rate that production is now calling a "standard rate" - I can't begin to count how many conversations I've had with potential clients recently who have quoted me an unbelievably low rate because that is what "everyone is working for." It wasn't until recently that sound equipment has gotten to the point where it is affordable and accessible to anyone. Compound the gear with sites like this one and Facebook where anyone - often within minutes - can get an answer to any question from the most complex to the most basic. It had gotten to the point that anyone with a credit card and a smart phone can cobble it together just enough to be a "sound person". Yes we all start somewhere and asking questions is the basis for learning. It was years of being in this business working under many experienced mixers looking, listening and learning that I bought my first piece of sound gear. Justindfox I am not singling you out and I hope you stick around and continue to ask questions here and continue to learn and hone your craft for years. And please don't be insulted by any post here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 <<the respondents are measuring the depth of your knowledge against that 663>> eh, wassat? a new recorder?? now, I too am puzzled... heh. [edit + ] and perplexed too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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