"Reality TV Workers Are Really Fed Up"

[studiomprd]

The problem is the really low minimum rates that are way too often being set, rates that are frequently less than the market's going non-union rates...

[VASI]

No. It's the opposite.

It keeps even the lowest rate at a decent level. Even for non-union jobs.

Wood you rather they set a maximum rate?

 

I'm not say to remove the minimum rate / wage, but with maximum rate you are start from +1 and not from 0. Is much easier to start and stay +1 rather than to fight to get this +1. Right?

 

If someone knows you as $65/per hour with negotiation $55/per hour rather than to know you as $45/per hour (which is the minimum rate).

[Henchman]

In Vancouver there is no union for audio-post.

Experienced people there are getting kicked out, and younger people getting into the industry are getting paid $15 and hour if they are lucky. No overtime. No benefits. Nothing.

That's what happens when you don't have a union.

If there was no union in LA, none of us would be living in an even remotely decent house.

We would be living in low income apartment housing, living paycheck to paycheck, with no retirement benefits, and making $15 an hour.

That's the real reality.

Oh, and the minimum rate here, is still better than the best maximum rate in most places.

[Henchman]

Do you REALLY think producers would pay even union rates, if they knew they didn't HAVE to.

Seriously, get a grip.

[Marc Wielage]

Do you REALLY think producers would pay even union rates, if they knew they didn't HAVE to.

Seriously, get a grip.

 

I can't afford to get a grip -- he's in the union! 

[johnpaul215]

Do you REALLY think producers would pay even union rates, if they knew they didn't HAVE to.

Seriously, get a grip.

Some reality shows do. am sure that somewhere a person runs the numbers on what it costs to get a great crew and avoid unions. I've been on jobs that follow union rules in terms of meal penalties, OT, turnaround etc.

That said, I will 100% acknowledge that those shows do not offer benefits (health plan, retirement etc). I also know that framework would not exist is the unions didn't exist.... And productions wouldn't feel so compelled to offer those deals.

That seems to appease many workers enough that they don't feel a need to unionize. They are in a spot where they are working as much as they want for one or two production companies. I have worked with quite a few reality people that said every job they did the previous few years was for the same company. In that sense they always know what the deal is. They feel secure and have no reason to worry about it.

I'm not on that side, just expressing how they seem to feel. I'm only talking about the sound / camera / etc crew and not the producers. They operate in a mysterious world I won't pretend to understand.

[Henchman]

I can't afford to get a grip -- he's in the union!

Hahahahahaha. Nice one.

[Henchman]

That seems to appease many workers enough that they don't feel a need to unionize. They are in a spot where they are working as much as they want for one or two production companies.

Which is exactly how the audio-post community in Vancouver felt about 15 years ago, when I tried to unionize the town. I organized big meeting, someone from the union came up from LA.

And they majority though they were doing fine, and saw no reason to unionize.

The majority of those people no longer work in audio post now, because they couldn't make a decent living anymore. And the ones who are, definitely aren't doing as well as I am financially. Not even close.

[johnpaul215]

Which is exactly how the audio-post community in Vancouver felt about 15 years ago, when I tried to unionize the town. I organized big meeting, someone from the union came up from LA.

And they majority though they were doing fine, and saw no reason to unionize.

The majority of those people no longer work in audio post now, because they couldn't make a decent living anymore. And the ones who are, definitely aren't doing as well as I am financially. Not even close.

 

I wonder about longevity, and how they see it. Maybe they see it as something to do for a few years, then move on and "settle down" to a 9-5 job. 

 

Then again, in my mind some shows pay mixers union rates, or close to it, but I don't know what a mixer would get if the show went union. I understand the tier system on films, but not how that would translate to a cable network TV (reality) show. Obviously different networks have different budgets, and even within a given network a specific show can have very different budgets because some are more expensive to make (if nothing else, how many shooting days go into an average episode). Cutting down shooting days is just one reason that reality shows became "secretly" scripted, at least in part. 

I worked on Animal Cops and their basic formula was almost a whole year of shooting to get 15 1hour episodes. Much of that year had 2 teams operating. 5 days a week. I worked on a similar show for a different network and we did 24 weeks of 5 day weeks for 6 1hour episodes. We didn't work 12 hour days unless things went bananas, but we had days and days of filming that ended up in the bin because the story was a dead end, or just nothing interesting happened. I don't know how many shows can afford that anymore, even being non-union. I've also day played on shows that can shoot 2 episodes in a week because it's all scripted and overall pretty crappy. On top of that, the rate wasn't very good. As long as the second show has viewers, you can imagine which one looks better on an excel spread sheet. 

[VASI]

2 episodes in a week sounds good plan and serious production.

 

lol

[studiomprd]

Vas: " but with maximum rate you are start from +1 "

No Union I know of sets a maximum rate, and they all set minimum rates.  that is how it is,  but when our unions start setting terrible minimum rates often below the local non-union rates, and clearly states that the individual is to negotiate their rate, then the union is neither respecting or properly servicing their members.  (and, BTW, if that is the case for a union that collects "work dues", a % of the pay, then they are only entitled to asses and collect work dues on the portion the union negotiated!

[VASI]

So, the "work dues" make sense. That's why I think the maximum rate is a good idea and not only a minimum rate. If you close a job with maximum rate then the "work dues" % will be the same as minimum rate "work dues" % exist now (and I don't know what % it is). And when you close a job with minimum rate then the "work dues" % will be much lower from "work dues" now. I called this respect and service from a union to their members; which is the point of union idea. I think.

 

For example:

Maximum rate - Work dues 5%

Minimum rate - Work dues 2%

 

Or if you don't want problems and troubles set a FIXED rate. If all the sides are disappointment then it is the best solution. 

[studiomprd]

Vas: " set a FIXED rate. "

that is what virtually all union contracts do in USA, however frequently talented specialists in their fiels are in demand, and are able negotiate "bumps", which are terms or rates more favorable than the set/fixed/minimum rates in the contracts.

an easy example for us is Actors: SAG-AFTRA has its contractual minimums, but many "stars" get paid way more than the contract rates... WAAAAAAY more.  all the minimum contract terms still apply, even when they get $20 mil.

[mulluysavage]

Ugly.

 

http://deadline.com/2014/08/padma-lakshmi-boston-teamsters-attack-top-chef-820137/

 

Boo Bravo. Boo Magical Elves. Boo Teamsters. 

[studiomprd]

The drivers on shows I work on are my friends!

 

OTOH, The Editors Guild recently organized post-production on Survivor.

http://deadline.com/2014/08/survivor-editors-iatse-contract-mark-burnett-cbs-821154/

that went quite peacefully...

In addition to Health and Retirement benefits, " while editors’ wages never were an issue in this dispute, assistants and loggers will see pay increases. Overall, the work schedule and compensation for all post staff will move to an 8-hour day and 40-hour week. Before, editors’ individual contracts had been on a day rate, regardless of hours worked or if they worked a weekday or weekend day. The tentative agreement transforms that into an 8-hour day, 5-day week. Overtime of time-and-a-half will go into effect after eight hours worked, as is standard in union shops. It goes into double time after 12 hours worked "

 

Back in Beantown:  a crew member said (of hiring non-union workers and drivers): " Along with that comes a lack of experience, professionalism and integrity. " which may apply to many of the parties in this drama...

Edited August 21, 2014 by studiomprd

[Mirror]

Ugly, ugly, ugly...  How is it that one can act like that and not get arrested?  Oh yeah, the government officials received money from the unions during the elections. This is how you can act like a monster and not go to jail. Not to mention the police are unionized.  Beantown and south central have a lot in common as one commentor (sp?) said of the article.

[old school]

.  Beantown and south central have a lot in common as one commentor (sp?) said of the article.

WTF are you talking about reflector? Your whole statement is a bit crazy IMO, but South Central & Beantown having a lot in common? I didn't read that in the article and I know about the 2 cities in your comment. Boston is a lot of things. Irish American and Afro American and Union town top to bottom. South Central was a black ghetto before it became a brown barrio and is without unions. 

 

While I don't condone violent threats and the behavior reported in this article, I do believe in confronting non union productions in a un ambiguous manner. The production company and those who work for it needs to be aware of their actions and what is at stake.

CrewC

[Mirror]

WTF are you talking about reflector? Your whole statement is a bit crazy IMO, but South Central & Beantown having a lot in common? I didn't read that in the article and I know about the 2 cities in your comment. Boston is a lot of things. Irish American and Afro American and Union town top to bottom. South Central was a black ghetto before it became a brown barrio and is without unions. 

 

While I don't condone violent threats and the behavior reported in this article, I do believe in confronting non union productions in a un ambiguous manner. The production company and those who work for it needs to be aware of their actions and what is at stake.

CrewC

 

Try shooting in east los and south central sometime.  You "hire" (pay off) the gang to shoot on their turf. Many shoots were the location liaison is a gangster walking around making it known that the production co. has paid the tribute to the gang for the privilege of filming.  Same as Boston it seems.

 

The sentence of yours I hi-lighted sounds like a threat.  Interesting.

[old school]

For 37 years I've shot all over LA, and be it in East Los, Watts, Compton, LBC, Beverly Hills, DTLA, Santa Monica, The Valley, etc, I've never seen or heard of paying off the "gang" you refer to.  I've also shot on Boston and the blanket you cover the Teamsters with is not in line with anything I've experienced.  Also this whole comparison something you read into the article and was not in it.

 

"The production company and those who work for it needs to be aware of their actions and what is at stake."

 

This is a threat? Not sure you have a firm grasp of reality brother. You are a IATSE member. Should we never picket a company shooting non union? Should we just give up and let everyone do as they will? As I stated before, I don't agree with how the Teamsters  went about it, but non union work should be confronted IMO.

CrewC

[Mirror]

For 37 years I've shot all over LA, and be it in East Los, Watts, Compton, LBC, Beverly Hills, DTLA, Santa Monica, The Valley, etc, I've never seen or heard of paying off the "gang" you refer to.  I've also shot on Boston and the blanket you cover the Teamsters with is not in line with anything I've experienced.  Also this whole comparison something you read into the article and was not in it.

 

"The production company and those who work for it needs to be aware of their actions and what is at stake."

 

This is a threat? Not sure you have a firm grasp of reality brother. You are a IATSE member. Should we never picket a company shooting non union? Should we just give up and let everyone do as they will? As I stated before, I don't agree with how the Teamsters  went about it, but non union work should be confronted IMO.

CrewC

 

Threatening is the word I should of used.

 

 

The quote I'm referring to is from someone commenting in the comment section on the website that the article was from.  This was stated in my post (#41).

 

I've shoot east los more times then I care to.  The gang "site rep" is there 50% of the time, if the production is smart, particularly when you are in the neighbor hoods - where the houses are. Not so visible on the main streets but among the houses for sure.  Some take a more active role in presenting themselves.  I've been on a show where a crew member was shot because the show didn't present it's self properly to the locals.  Some banger popped out of an alley and fired a round randomly and hit one of our crew.

 

Remind me again how this is so far removed from this Boston incident? Same attitude if you ask me. Extortion is the word that comes to mind.

[old school]

I don't see how referring to a comment (#41) on an article is news. Its opinion. The article is what it is, a reporting of an incident.

 

"I've been on a show where a crew member was shot because the show didn't present its self properly to the locals. "

 

Care to name the show the crew member was shot on? What year? Sounds like set war story bs to me, but if you were there, give us some more details as to what and when this occurred.

 

Extortion happens all the time in our business from the chain saw neighbor in Pasadena, to the restaurant owner in Chinatown turning up the music next door to the set, or the neighbor who makes shooting in his Pacific Palisades neighborhood a pain in the ass even when he works in the top end of the biz. Everybody has a hand out when they see a big show roll up. Again, (and again), I don't think what Local 25 did was done right, but confronting non union shows is fine with me. 

CrewC

[studiomprd]

back on topic: more from Beantown: http://deadline.com/2014/08/rankled-boston-mayors-minions-held-up-non-union-permits-for-top-chef-crews-823460/