Question about crew contract agreement

[Bob K]

Location Sound Mixer, new to the forum.  Question regarding a written agreement for the production of a Reality show.  It contains this clause: "Producer shall have the right to request, and you agree to provide to Producer or Producer’s representative a written, catalogued inventory of all tools, equipment and supplies you supply, if any. Producer is not liable for loss or damage of such tools, equipment, or supplies as you provide."

 

I'm providing all the sound gear, of course.  I don't know that I've ever signed an agreement that the production company has no liability for equipment damage.  In this particular case, the reality star is known for tantrums and irrational behavior.  (Also, providing the inventory mentioned would be a real pain, as I have hundred of items, many custom-built cables, etc.)

 

What's the standard arrangement concerning equipment damage?  Should I remove this clause before signing?  I'm in the midwest, and the company is coming from L.A. 

[Philip Perkins]

Don't sign it of you don't want to live by it.  Either call them and discuss it or cross those lines out, send the contract in (and then discuss it).  Be ready by knowing what you'll do if they refuse to remove those lines, thereby taking no responsibility for what happens to your gear on location.  Remember, no rental house would sign such an agreement, or agree to let gear out the door without proof of insurance.  The fact that this company is not from your area is another red flag--they are not likely to care a lot about you being willing to do more work for them in the future, or what you would say about them to other soundies.

 

philp

[studiomprd]

Philip: " no rental house would sign such an agreement, or agree to let gear out the door without proof of insurance. "

... and not just proof that the production has insurance, but a certificate that shows they have coverage for the rented equipment, and have included the owner-supplier of the equipment as an additionally insured; further, if there is a deductible in the insurance, the production company needs to indemnify (you) for that amount, as well...

 

Certificates of Insurance have been discussed here before, and while you may have to provide a fully detailed inventory (as you also might for international travel), it is, of course up to you if you want to self insure your equipment, as I'm sure almost none of us here would recommend, or ever do themselves.

If they won't cover your equipment, do not provide it.

[Christopher Mills]

network and studio productions have this contract language in the first deal they offer to Steadicam, Special Effects, and Sound Mixers.

Many of them also have a contract which states the opposite, and that they are assuming responsibility for repairs and replacements.

If you sign this, you will have to live by it, even if an actor drops a tx into the toilet, a producer loses a comtek, or a crew person brakes the boom operator's pole in a collision while carrying speedrail.

 

Last year our team had all of these happen on one show, and if we had agreed to the first contract, we would have been uncompensated. 

 

It is appropriate to submit a list of all gear you have along with you.

 

As it was, we were made whole.

 

Got any friends doing steadicam?   I bet one of them has the contract language.

[Bob K]

Thanks Philip and Mike.  That's a good point about rental houses requiring insurance, and another good point about a certificate of insurance with me named as additionally insured, plus indemnity for any deductible.  I'll try to search the site for past discussions of Certificates of Insurance. 

 

Of course, I'm not a rental house, I'm an owner and I carry equipment insurance.  Many of my clients are freelancers and small companies.  I guess I've always thought I was responsible for my own stuff in most cases.

 

In >20 years I've had just a few instances where gear was broken.  Each time I've taken a loss.  Twice, actors ripped body mics into pieces right in front of me.  $250 each.  In one case the client was a friend and we split the cost of a new mic.  In the other, it was a low-budget feature and their lawyer found the mic was several years old and offered "salvage value" of almost nothing.  Once a cameraman moved my shotgun mic case from the backseat to the top of a pile of lighting cases in the back of the van, without telling me.  On the first turn I heard a loud crash and found my mic case had fallen 4 feet.  The mic had to go back to the manufacturer for new inards, but not right away.  It kept working for a while.  >$300 out of my pocket. My insurance is for "replacement cost," but it has a $250 deductible, so it's never been worth it to make a claim.

 

Glad I asked about this.  No way will i sign an agreement that I'm responsible, no matter what.  I'll have to start working on that equipment inventory. 

[Christopher Mills]

You ARE a rental house.  You are also a loan out company offering your labor.  Get contracts to address both, and your life will improve.

[Philip Perkins]

All the losses that were mentioned (and many more) have happened to me over the years, but in each case the production eventually paid for replacement or repair (if 100% repair was possible), with rental replacement during repair.  Anything else is just you subsidizing them.  There needs to be an understanding between all parties that loss and damage to equipment of all types WILL happen during a shoot and there needs to be an agreed-on mechanism in place to deal with that eventuality.  

 

philp

[Bob K]

Thanks for the information Christopher.  I appreciate the story about your recent equipment losses.  I think you are right, but then there's the struggle to find enough work here too.  Definately going to press for certificate of insurance from Reality TV productions, though. 

[Mirror]

When I'm on a show the production pays for ALL loses - there is no "let's split the cost" or salvage cost dialog.  As Philp said, I've also have had all the same losses you mentioned and more.  Not one penny from my pocket.

[Wandering Ear]

I have refused to sign contracts that exclude my equipment from coverage, and will often get production to sign my contact which states they are liable for damages etc. I have had many things damaged, including recently a lost slate, all of which have been repaired or replaced at productions expense.

You have to be your own advocate, nobody else is looking out for your interests for you, so make sure you are covered

[Rick Reineke]

"Producer is not liable for loss or damage of such tools, equipment, or supplies as you provide."

 I've seen that more than a few times, it's a standard template from who knows where or for what. I always cross it and change it so production is liable. So far no objections. Reality shows are tough on gear and I won't even use my own mics/transmitters on some were destruction is likely. I actually lost two transmitters w/mics a while back when the (drunk) female participants decided to disrobe in the ocean. The producers left town and disappeared. I didn't have insurance. Lession learned.

[johnpaul215]

I always cross it out and request a COI (certificate of insurance). never been an issue. It is boilerplate, and at least one producer told me they see it is a "production has to know of your expensive gear in advance, so it's listed on our insurance". 

[studiomprd]

bobK: " In one case the client was a friend and we split the cost of a new mic.  In the other, it was a low-budget feature* and their lawyer found the mic was several years old and offered "salvage value" of almost nothing. "

if the first "client" was really a friend, s/he would have replaced the mic with the new one.  and in the second case, they low budget folks found money for a lawyer...

Christopher: "You are also a loan out company offering your labor. "

eh??

probably not really, but if that is your dodge for "independent contractor", good luck.

Christopher may be right, you are typically a rental company when you rent them your gear package, but the producers argument with that independent contractor status is that the IC provides their own "tools" -as Rick quoted--, possibly another argument against being an IC...

Rick: " it's a standard template from who knows where or for what. "

it is a standard template for independent contractors, who provide their own tools, equipment, and supplies.

 

* on Low budget "anything":the equipment works just as hard, and takes at least the same beating and risks as the ones that pay properly...

[Max Hirtenstein]

a recent deal memo i received stated that the production company was not responsible for any damage to myself or my gear. when i emailed back asking about it, i was fired right away. definitely did not lose any sleep over losing that job.

[johnpaul215]

Max, sounds like you dodged a bullet.

[syncsound]

Max, sounds like you dodged a bullet.

Yup. Anytime there is a fight regarding a COI, consider that a red flag. Getting a COI issued  is two emails. I once got one less than an hour after I'd requested it.  If they're not insured, they're not for real.

[studiomprd]

sync: "  If they're not insured, they're not for real. "

(worth repeating)

[Bob K]

Thanks Rick.  Sounds like blacking out "not" in "Producer is not liable for loss or damage of such tools, equipment, or supplies as you provide," and perhaps underlining "is" may be the simplest solution.  And thanks johnpaul for adding "production has to know of your expensive gear in advance, so it's listed on our insurance."  I have to start making an inventory today.  (Can anyone recommend a handy freeware program for that?)

 

btw, I just talked with my insurance agent.  After years of being told I don't need a "schedule" (inventory), she now says I should have one for my own protection, otherwise the ins. co. may not pay the "replacement cost," but instead offer current value!  And, from past experence I already know "current value" can be depreciated to near zero if the gear is older, even though it still functions perfectly.

 

Mike, paying out of pocket for those mics wasn't even the worst of it.  The friend I was working with was making a "short film" and I and others were helping him for no charge.  So I took a net loss on that one.  But, he's hired me for plenty of paying work over the years.  The low budget feature, though, that one could be a chapter in a book.  I didn't know them, and they called me last minute and begged me to work for something like 1/3 rate.  They finally talked me into working just the 1st day of production, which couldn't be changed and they didn't have a sound mixer.  Yeah, I know, huge red flag.  (It's the same old story.  I assume everyone has seen Sound Mixer Hell?)  Here in MN, "low budget feature" can mean anything from 3 guys with a prosumer video camera, to a full crew shooting 35mm film.  So, I show up for this low-budget shoot, and they have a full crew, $100,000 video camera, trailers for actors, wardrobe, etc.  But, again no money for sound.  And, every shot had dialogue!  Then, when my gear is broken they run me through a wringer for a couple months and then offer "salvage value!"

 

Back to the current issue, yes I'm definately an independent contractor on this upcoming shoot.  I should also say, it's not the full show either, just an episode.  Real people and locations, no studio.  We don't really have a studio in this town.  My plan now, make an inventory, and send it with the revised contract and a friendly request for a COI. 

[studiomprd]

bobK: " So I took a net loss on that one "

that made you an investor in the movie, and earned you an associate producer credit!

" But, again no money for sound. "

you probably would have been happy with what they paid the lawyer to generate the letter!

[mikewest]

Yep try for a COI

 

Provide a full list of gear with values and serial numbers

 

If production will not move on insurance add an insurance cost on your invoice!

 

mike

[Jan McL]

And don't forget to note the serial numbers in your inventory since you're touching everything anyway. If you think you'll travel internationally in future, also note country of manufacture in your database.

 

+1 to what everyone else has added, most notably that you are a rental house It was a happy day when I came to that conclusion. Huge attitudinal difference.

 

We are entrepreneurs!

 

Long live entrepreneurs! 

[Nathaniel Robinson]

I've had several companies want to pay for my gear through a box rental agreement. These forms usually state that gear is under your control, and solely your responsibility. I've had pushback from refusing to sign these, but I'll walk away from those gigs every time. Won't work for a new client that won't issue a COI.

[Rob Lewis]

Great discussion guys and gals. I recently wrapped a show, I provided all the sound gear. As many have mentioned above, you are a rental house. Do not fill out a kit rental form or box rental form, Invoice under the company name. Wexler, VER, Bexel, Cinelease, Gotham, Trew etc... All require proof of insurance, COI before they let anything leave the shop. Do the same, make it your policy. If the production does not like it, then no gear shows up. Thanks for sharing and looking out for the community

[Bob K]

Thanks again for more insight and info.  mikewest, how do you calculate insurance cost if the client won't provide it?  Several have mentioned serial numbers.  Of course I'll include those, but lot's of my gear doesn't have one.  That brings up another question: does every last connector, cable and gizmo go on the inventory you send to clients, or do you draw a line somewhere?  Jan, country of manufacture?  Really?  OK, I'll add one more column to the inventory.  Nathaniel, I've wondered why some clients want to "break out" the equipment rental (yeah, they DO call it "rental").  Now I know.  Guess I never read the fine print.

 

So, yesterday when I called my ins. agent for her insight on all this, she said she'd never heard of a client providing a COI.  The only calls she gets are from people like me needing a COI to present to clients who insist on it.  (Mine, and I think most, includes liability coverage.)  I can recall past clients requiring it too, thinking back.  When I shared the information I've learned here, she agreed it all makes sense.  I'm not the only one learning something from this forum.

 

Maybe I'm still wrong, but it does seem there's a difference between me and a rental house: When I provide equipment, I'm the only one handling and using it.  I don't want make-up, wardrobe and PAs removing my body mics and transmitters, for example.  If there's a wardrobe change, I take the mic off.  (Though some don't cooperate.)  I wouldn't want more of that because the production company is insuring my gear.

[Mirror]

Thanks again for more insight and info.  mikewest, how do you calculate insurance cost if the client won't provide it?  Several have mentioned serial numbers.  Of course I'll include those, but lot's of my gear doesn't have one.  That brings up another question: does every last connector, cable and gizmo go on the inventory you send to clients, or do you draw a line somewhere?  Jan, country of manufacture?  Really?  OK, I'll add one more column to the inventory.  Nathaniel, I've wondered why some clients want to "break out" the equipment rental (yeah, they DO call it "rental").  Now I know.  Guess I never read the fine print.

 

So, yesterday when I called my ins. agent for her insight on all this, she said she'd never heard of a client providing a COI.  The only calls she gets are from people like me needing a COI to present to clients who insist on it.  (Mine, and I think most, includes liability coverage.)  I can recall past clients requiring it too, thinking back.  When I shared the information I've learned here, she agreed it all makes sense.  I'm not the only one learning something from this forum.

 

Maybe I'm still wrong, but it does seem there's a difference between me and a rental house: When I provide equipment, I'm the only one handling and using it.  I don't want make-up, wardrobe and PAs removing my body mics and transmitters, for example.  If there's a wardrobe change, I take the mic off.  (Though some don't cooperate.)  I wouldn't want more of that because the production company is insuring my gear.

 

You need better self-esteem.  Of course you're a rental house!  You are two entities.  A rental house AND an employee of the production company.  Look at crane companys.  They not only rent the prod co. a crane, they also provide a technician to operate it.  That technician is paid like any other crew member on the shoot.  The crane is RENTED .  When you work on the Warner Bros. lot you are hired as a mixer and can not use your own gear.  You are forced to use WB gear that WB rents to the production company. Two different things: a mixer and rental house.  

 

It doesn't matter that you are the only one that touches the gear.  

 

Oh, and COI are the only way to go.  If the prod co doesn't provide one when you ask for one then then the prod co is an inexperienced entity that can screw you by saying no to your claims or ask you to share in the cost of replacement.  Look forward to being screwed when problems arise.