Christian Spaeth Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'll be working on a big car commercial next week (they usually do em without production sound here...). There will be no dialogue, only ambience and engine sounds to be recorded. So I'm supposed to plant mics into the cars and record the while the car driving. Of course there will be a lot done in sound design but I'd like to give them some good sounding recordings anyway. Since I haven't recorded engine sounds very often maybe some of you who have (SFX folks?) can give me some advice concerning good mic placement, what kind of mics you'd use etc. Thanks in advance Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 admirable. a little research here will reveal several past helpful threads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I haven't recorded any engine sounds, but plenty of other car sounds. For the engine, I've heard and read people are using DPAs (4060) for the engines because they can take the SPL. Obviously smaller mics are an advantage in a car.. My favorite is CCM41. I usually roll a stereo couple to get the interior car rolling sounds.. For the other noises (wipers, indicators, doors windows etc ) I close mic it with a single mkh50 or equivalent.. I'm sure you already have that somewhat figured out. Have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 While we wait for the sound fx experts to get here, I can tell you about the pretty good results I've had on those few occasions when I had the chance to record the hell out of a car. I tend to use only DPA 40461s, because they can be hidden easier. I assume you know how to record the interior. Exterior I will put one mic on the exhaust pipe. To me this is where the best sound is. Maybe another one on the trunk near the pipe. And the engine of course. It's difficult to recommend the one spot here as they sound good in different places. Another one on each rear tyre. I choose rear to get some separation from the engine. Also a stereo mic on the roof can yield good results. Definetely remember wind protection, for all mics. If you get some alone time with the car I would use your fav non-lav mic in the same places attached with magic arms or whatever. Depends on the car handler, though. I once did a commercial which featured a rare oldtimer and I was only allowed to use sticky tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 The problem is not how but the proper time to do so... I just turned down a 2 day car spot that demanded 5 mics all over the vehicle for sounds... It is never fun getting the vehicle in question while they are filming them.. They usually have two or more cars..but they are normally busy with them both... It is a fight to get your hands on one for 15 min, let alone a car to place 5 mics on, on engine, suspension, interior, exhaust etc... ALONE...with no assistant or boom op... I passed and took another gig... On shows like that you are but a dirty stepchild... Nagging to get the car... I personally don't mind doing it.. If the situation is right.. But after seeing the schedule and proposed locations and location changes, I passed.... Know when to say when... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Done a lot of car stuff BMW Mazda Jeep commercials plus various hero cars for dramas Interiors in stereo Exteriors, engine and exhaust pipe using dynamic cardioides Also to get a lot done in a short time use a multichannel recorder for the whole lot Advice the PM that you will need a driver and several hours of car time to do it properly mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Mike "Advice the PM that you will need a driver and several hours of car time to do it properly" Exactly....... This is the key... the recording and how to is pretty straightforward.... it's the time to do it that is the fight... Always... Your up against schedules and the camera... both can be a losing battle.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdutaillis Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 There's a few great articles over at designingsound.org on recording cars: http://designingsound.org/2014/07/a-brief-tour-of-automotive-sound-sources/ http://designingsound.org/2010/08/rob-nokes-special-guide-to-recording-cars/ http://designingsound.org/2010/02/charles-deenen-special-car-recording-guide/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Lezynski Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Air intake to the throttle body is usually pretty exciting...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 firewall. get a lav on the firewall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted July 19, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Wow, great tips there! I'll do some reading and bring a lot of stuff with me... the way I see it, if they don't give me time to rig the car properly, it's their own bad. Every production gets the sound it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted July 19, 2014 Report Share Posted July 19, 2014 Every production gets the sound it deserves.That is so very true. I knew this as "every director...", but this one's even better. Something to remember on the many frustrating days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted July 20, 2014 Report Share Posted July 20, 2014 Slightly off topic but during a series I was asked by the producer to record various aspects of a DC3 aircraft that has featured. I said fine I need two hours - "20 minutes was the reply"! I took 2 hours on the ground and in the air and achieved a full collection of fx Was great fun! mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Immoral Mr Teas Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 I'm a sound editor who does a fair bit of effects recording (including cars for several films) as a specialised area for productions. I tend to use only DPA 4061s, because they can be hidden easier. Exterior I will put one mic on the exhaust pipe. To me this is where the best sound is. Maybe another one on the trunk near the pipe. And the engine of course. It's difficult to recommend the one spot here as they sound good in different places. All good advice here (as well as what's not quoted) - if I have only 2 channels for exteriors I tend to do exactly this: DPA 4061 (or 60 or 62) somewhere under the bonnet and another near the exhaust, both with foam or fluffies or wind protection of some sort (obviously more so for the exhaust mic), and out of direct wind stream if possible. Interiors in stereo Also to get a lot done in a short time use a multichannel recorder for the whole lot Mike "Advice the PM that you will need a driver and several hours of car time to do it properly" Exactly....... This is the key... Again, (excerpts of) more good advice ... it will require (some) time to position the mics and some forward planning to decide what's required or wished for by the production and the editors (and then communicate this to production if possible before the day and to the driver and other relevant crew at the start of the day). If its possible for yourself or production, an assistant or co-recordist (or sound savvy apprentice) will make set ups and ability to record more of them much easier. If you have a multichannel recorder, reserve either two channels (or perhaps an omni mono if really stretched) for the interior then work out what else you have and use up the rest of the channels accordingly. A (shock-) mounted interior setup would be best but you could perhaps get away with handheld (though over 50kph I'd rather not). Even two (or one...) DPA 4060 taped dangling from the roof interior will give good results. Another advantage of recording multichannel is the sound editors have a good record of all aspects of the car sounds under each condition. EXTERIORS - as well as the 'meat and potatoes' exterior mics there may be a strong desire to record both 'onboard distant' and real distant perspectives. The former could be achieved by rigging one (or two if desired) lightweight fishing rod with a 4061 in a jammer or softie so that it's a constant 10-15ft from the car ... The latter means yourself (or co-recordist) stands a suitable distance from the track and records a shotgun-following track on a separate recorder (roughly synched with TC if easily done but really not important for post). Depending on resources and expectations stereo passbys would also be good to get (I'd choose something between omni and cardioid setups personally, not ms) but a decently held following directional mic will be the most useful for post - if you've ONE channel spare with this, an omni (4060 OK, MKH 20 etc better) on a stand a few feet away from the recordist would be my first choice. For drama FX I would usually be required to record in positions as above, and much at several slow and ambient speeds etc as well as the full throttle noise. Libraries often focus too strongly on the hard sounds to be of much use to editors ...! On the other hand, unless you're recording the latest slow town shopper, its likely the client wants a ballsy close up set of sounds to fire the testosterone - so find out as much as you can from the director, producer or whomever and tailor your setups and schedule to record what's needed. A pair of omnis positioned somewhere on the outside, in addition to the 'standard' engine / tail positions - near back wheels, on the roof, mirrors - to get a decent general balance of 'car' without too much 'hard effect' and wherever helps shielding from wind-stream or wind - could be done. (Of course, getting over and above the requirements would be good for your library - or the client's library - if you could weasel the extras in - but driving round a track at 30kph may not be looked upon too favourably). A few final notes - I favour omnis for all the onboard setups because of the wind - and lack of proximity effect. Since you probably don't need much if any directional characteristic it makes them an obvious choice. The DPA lav family of 4061 etc is great sounding, easy to stick down and much used for this kind of thing but you could always use suction cups, foam tubes or whatever and use what you have or can hire - mounting and windshielding are the biggest problems so I'll rarely reach further than what lavs are available especially if time's an issue but a dynamic could work in the bonnet and if you have time and resources you could try anything (some high end DPA and Bruel and Kjaer mics even have wind-tunnel nose cone adaptors). But to recap - find out what (they think) they might want - plan available channels, mics (and people) - decide 'most probable' mic setups - plan recording schedule: starts, runs, speeds, turns, spins, breaks etc - communicate plan and schedule to driver and any other concerned party (and make sure it can be met - adapt if necessary) Fasten your seatbelt, don't sit in the trunk, and best of luck! And try not to laugh or scream over interiors - it ruins the take. Jez Adamson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 21, 2014 Report Share Posted July 21, 2014 Jez: " getting over and above the requirements would be good for your library " it seems to me that if one is hired to make recordings of a (the) car provided by the client, then these recordings are the client's (work for hire) and not "yours". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 http://designingsound.org/2014/07/planes-trains-and-automobiles-and-tanks-and-bikes-and-boats-and/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted July 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 Jez, terrific read, thank you for this helpful post. I already feel much more prepared than I did before I started this thread... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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