ERX hard wire timecode jam

[fieldmixer]

I would like the ability to use my erx units with a non zaxnet recorder. Is implementing the capability of hardwire jamming the erx via a cable possible?

[soundslikejustin]

Use an IFB200, or an IFB-optioned QRX.

[Cloud Wang]

Or maybe an old TRX900AA with STA100/150, use its tc connector to get an external code then set the TRX900AA's IFB to TX. Used price should be cheaper than an IFB200 now.

Anyway you need a solid IFB TX source as the ERX units does not hold sync after power cycle or out of range for too long time.

[JonG]

I use Sound  Devices machines, but prefer using ERXs for hops/TC, so I use an IFB100 to go along with it. Works perfectly well, zero complaints.

[fieldmixer]

Thanks for the replys. I don't think zaxcom would like to hear that " does not hold sync for too long"... I'm surprised. Is that real world experience?

So, I am aware of all the wireless options to send code. I was asking about the potential to send code via a hardwire. Jack, Howy, is there the possibility that a firmware update might allow the erx to take a wired jam?

[osa]

Thanks for the replys. I don't think zaxcom would like to hear that " does not hold sync for too long"... I'm surprised. Is that real world experience?

In my experience it holds well over time without rejamming, but drops completely when batts go. Less than 1 frame in 6 hours possible drift i believe are the official specs

Dont know that a headphone jack can be reset to an input by firmware alone, IMHO.

Ken

[RadoStefanov]

I sometimes  use Denecke as a master feeding nomad. Denecke Slate will not drift. ERXs however will drift if not in range.

[glenn]

ERX will hold perfectly only if they can have a reference signal every 15 minutes or so. When they do there is no drift.

 

It is a RF referenced system.

 

Glenn

[fieldmixer]

Thanks all. That answers that. I'll attempt to use my trx900 in ifb transmit mode.

[John Blankenship]

I just did a quick test this evening with one of my ERXs using a Denecke Master Clock.  After removing its reference signal, the ERX gained just under three-tenths of a frame in thirty minutes.  What Glenn said holds true -- feed it every fifteen minutes or so and it'll stay a really happy camper. 

 

One of these days, when time permits, I'll see how all of mine compare.

 

Of course, if you're sending audio, too, you'll want a constant feed.  I recently completed several months on a show where I was typically feeding three cameras time code and audio via ERXs.  No complaints from post other than a couple of takes that didn't have the scratch track because a camera operator accidentally turned down the audio level.

 

A set of Imedion rechargeables worked for something like fourteen hours or so.  That meant no re-jamming, no battery changes during the day -- and cameramen love such a lightweight link. 

 

If I want an accurate free-standing time code reference, I use a Denecke box.  For an application like the show I was on, the ERXs turned out to be ideal.

 

 

[RadoStefanov]

No complaints from post other than a couple of takes that didn't have the scratch track because a camera operator accidentally turned down the audio level.

.

John you can switch off the knob in the erx menu to prevent accidental level change.

[John Blankenship]

John you can switch off the knob in the erx menu to prevent accidental level change.

That's the way I use them. It was the camera's level controls that the shooter accidentally turned down. Fortunately, it was caught quickly and remedied.

[RadoStefanov]

I always wanted an ERX without the volume knob and power switch,

If we could power on and of by holding MENU and change the volume by pressing up and down.

Then accidents will be prevented.

[James Arnold]

Thanks John for the test.

I must admit that I had previously assumed - from comments on here and elsewhere - that the ERX acted like a Lockit box when out of range by defaulting to the internal generator. It seems it does this, but will drift within a small timeframe by a small amount. I have been using mine on jobs with several sound recordists alongside their Lockit and TC Buddy units. What worries me slightly is that I was working to the assumption (oops!) that if my units went off with a camera and another mixer for an hour or so they were still in sync with his recorder and the 'master clock'. The above info suggests that this might not be the case without the constant signal from my Nomad.

[Wandering Ear]

I always wanted an ERX without the volume knob and power switch,

If we could power on and of by holding MENU and change the volume by pressing up and down.

Then accidents will be prevented.

 

This would be great for a camera receiver, but not great for producers/clients.

I think a camera specific version of the ERX would be ideal, with a sturdy locking connection for TC & Audio.

 

 

Thanks John for the test.

I must admit that I had previously assumed - from comments on here and elsewhere - that the ERX acted like a Lockit box when out of range by defaulting to the internal generator. It seems it does this, but will drift within a small timeframe by a small amount. I have been using mine on jobs with several sound recordists alongside their Lockit and TC Buddy units. What worries me slightly is that I was working to the assumption (oops!) that if my units went off with a camera and another mixer for an hour or so they were still in sync with his recorder and the 'master clock'. The above info suggests that this might not be the case without the constant signal from my Nomad.

 

I had the same assumption, then tried this, and have had no issues when the ERX is out of range for a short period of time, like a couple minutes, but it does get out of sync pretty quickly if left out of wireless range, so I avoid that or switch to a different method if I'm going to be away from camera for a while.

[studiomprd]

JA: " I had previously assumed "

WE: " I had the same assumption, "

never a good practice, especially when it is so easy to find out the correct information...

see how bad "facts" get spread so quickly..?

[Wandering Ear]

JA: " I had previously assumed "

WE: " I had the same assumption, "

never a good practice, especially when it is so easy to find out the correct information...

see how bad "facts" get spread so quickly..?

That information isn't published.  The information that is published is that the ERX will hold timecode when out of wireless range, so I was acting on the information available to me.

[osa]

That information isn't published. The information that is published is that the ERX will hold timecode when out of wireless range, so I was acting on the information available to me.

Same here - wasnt until this discussion that i realized that 1 frame every 6 hours was only when drivin by camera link or similar, and its that clock once jammed stays locked within 1 frame every 6 hours - if i have that correct. Glad this was all discussed, all good to know

Ken

[James Arnold]

I had the same assumption, then tried this, and have had no issues when the ERX is out of range for a short period of time, like a couple minutes, but it does get out of sync pretty quickly if left out of wireless range, so I avoid that or switch to a different method if I'm going to be away from camera for a while.

It's entirely my own fault for not correctly reading up on this, but I must say this has come as something of a blow. My ERX are - till now - my favourite bits of kit, but this was at least partly based on the idea that they replaced my need to ever purchase Lockit boxes or anything in the TC Buddy/Ambient Network line. The fact they they may not in fact act as accurate sync boxes for any serious duration when out of my sight is a serious detriment to some of the work I do.

I'm very appreciative of the other benefits that the ERX provides in scratch track audio and IEM but to be perfectly honest I almost always use them for sync purposes. With that in mind I shall have to go off and look at Ambient and TCBuddy, both of which I suspect have a long term sync hold built in.

[studiomprd]

ERX will hold perfectly only if they can have a reference signal every 15 minutes or so. When they do there is no drift.

 

It is a RF referenced system.

 

Glenn

this was not news to me...I had recalled being told in presentations by Glenn, and others, that this was how it was designed to work: with the RF signal as an ongoing reference, and the ability to carry on during brief interruptions.

~.5 frame/hr (without an RF refresh) seems reasonable (to me) for this product.

 

JA: " both of which I suspect have a long term sync "

much better than assuming, and as I noted: easy to verify.  of course high accuracy TC requires hi-accuracy crystals, and associated circuitry, raising the costs to manufacture, and, thus...

[Jeff Wexler]

"I'm very appreciative of the other benefits that the ERX provides in scratch track audio and IEM but to be perfectly honest I almost always use them for sync purposes. With that in mind I shall have to go off and look at Ambient and TCBuddy, both of which I suspect have a long term sync hold built in."

 

Nothing to "suspect" about dedicated sync boxes from Denecke, Ambient or TCBuddy, any of the products that were designed to "always use ... for sync purposes" --- that is all they do and they will do it reliably and predictably.  The ERX receivers were designed primarily for wireless audio monitor distribution (similar to Comtek and Lectro IFB systems) with which they do a fabulous job. People discovered that they could be used to feed a very high quality scratch track to cameras, with timecode, and in fact they were pressed into service and continue to be used in this manner, but with certain qualifications. I am surprised that anyone thought they would be a direct replacement for the expensive and dedicated sync boxes without some compromise. It turns out that the only compromises, including the relative fragility and connectivity issues some of have discussed with the ERX, relates to the need to have the ERXs jam themselves quite often (if you want them to mimic the stability and accuracy of a dedicated sync box).

[Constantin]

Well, a device called ERX2TCD sounds, to me, primarily like a Timecode device. Instead, it is both, for audio and TC, it's a compromise device, and that's fine. The price does reflect this. When compared to a dedicated TC box, it seems obvious that this must have it's drawbacks somewhere

[Tony Johnson]

Yes it is a timecode device and is very accurate when used in a zax net system. I cannot understand why you would use one outside those parameters. It's a System not a stand alone timecode or audio product and is a fantastic piece of kit when in that environment.

Tony

[James Arnold]

"I'm very appreciative of the other benefits that the ERX provides in scratch track audio and IEM but to be perfectly honest I almost always use them for sync purposes. With that in mind I shall have to go off and look at Ambient and TCBuddy, both of which I suspect have a long term sync hold built in."

 

Nothing to "suspect" about dedicated sync boxes from Denecke, Ambient or TCBuddy, any of the products that were designed to "always use ... for sync purposes" --- that is all they do and they will do it reliably and predictably.  The ERX receivers were designed primarily for wireless audio monitor distribution (similar to Comtek and Lectro IFB systems) with which they do a fabulous job. People discovered that they could be used to feed a very high quality scratch track to cameras, with timecode, and in fact they were pressed into service and continue to be used in this manner, but with certain qualifications. I am surprised that anyone thought they would be a direct replacement for the expensive and dedicated sync boxes without some compromise. It turns out that the only compromises, including the relative fragility and connectivity issues some of have discussed with the ERX, relates to the need to have the ERXs jam themselves quite often (if you want them to mimic the stability and accuracy of a dedicated sync box).

 

I dunno Jeff.

 

I'm not aware of the design history behind the ERX (nor should I have to be as a customer) but there's very little doubt that they are currently marketed by Zaxcom with the timecode distribution fuction very much front and centre - not as some kind of accidental bonus.

I'm not sure where I got the information regarding the ERX stability away from signal (possibly on the old website or even on here) but their use in this manner isn't something that I just pulled out of my backside. There is nothing on the current website relating to to this or in the manual that I can see. The website does however list them as having ' a built-in timecode reader and generator'. How accurate this generator is when away from a jamming signal does not appear to be common knowledge. I was certainly under the - possibly erroneous - impression that it was highly accuarate for some time. I recall discussing this with 'someone' before I bought my Nomad/ERX combo. It doesn't seem that I am alone in this.

 

I don't think it is fair to suggest that they should not be mentioned in the same breath as other timecode devices. Any discussion on here as to the relative merits of such things nearly always has an appearance by the ERX.

I'm going to ask Zax about what they consider to be the likely drift on the ERX over several hours and if this is common to each and every unit or different on each one.

[James Arnold]

That information isn't published.  The information that is published is that the ERX will hold timecode when out of wireless range, so I was acting on the information available to me.

 

This was my impression as well.