bmfsnd Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 On some shows like Breaking Bad and True Detective, you can sometimes hear a high frequency tone on top of the dialog track, as if it was some kind of carrier tone. It also follows the same gate as the dialog so it must be a technique. Does anyone know what this is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Hirtenstein Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 HMI being expanded down between lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 It's stupid if it's really there, because that'd be easy to knock out with iZotope RX. Given the number of tracks in a dialogue scene, I'd be very surprised if the tone was there all the time. You'd think it'd come and go. On the other hand... when I mastered The Deep for Sony Pictures around 1990, I heard some really weird noise in a bunch of the dialogue scenes. I called the studio sound department, got passed around to several people, and finally one of the supervisors came on line and said, "wow, I knew some day somebody would hear this noise and ask about it." He proceded to explain that he had been on the post crew, that a big percentage of the dialogue was bad on the show, and they had made a loop of the noise and added it to the entire picture! He said that nobody had ever heard it, since most of the noise was covered up by the usual optical-sound sludge. (So help me, that's what I was told.) Back in 1977, they had no way of surgically removing this noise the way you can today in a DAW. So there is precedence for weird noise like this in dialogue tracks in the past. I'm very surprised somebody could let a problem like this go today, because the tools to fix it exist are cheap and relatively fast to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 When they had some old monitors (valve) in ADR studios you could hear the 15/16kHz whine if they didn't use a high cut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 If the tone was left after expanding you'd hear it duck between lines and pop up while people were talking. Mark Hensley, who mixed several seasons of BB sometimes lurks here, maybe he can weigh in about that tone and if it was something he worked on getting rid of it. I'd guess that it is an artifact introduced in transmission, or worse, in dubbing, and that the master doesn't have it. It's fairly easy to reduce the level of a constant pitched sound anymore in post, and it doesn't make sense re: set noise that the sound would stay the same across angle changes and new scenes. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmfsnd Posted July 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 If the lines where the tone is present are ADR takes, I'm surprised how well it matches the production sound. You'd think that a constant tone like that is easily notched out, or serves some other purpose. This tone mostly occurs during mumbling/soft moments, and maybe it helps "perk up" your ears. Assuming you still have that hearing range. I'm just imagining here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Matt: it is a secret message from aliens for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted July 25, 2014 Report Share Posted July 25, 2014 Matt: it is a secret message from aliens for you.>>> loL !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 Matt, is it possible this is in your local cable system or satellite system? Does it happen in any other shows? I've seen and heard some horrible stuff that some cable channels have done (and still do) to certain channels -- particularly in lots of compression and processing. As one example, the difference between Breaking Bad on AMC and Breaking Bad on Blu-ray are night-and day different -- tons more dynamic range, far better sound quality, far less compression, far better pictures. (And of course, the Blu-rays don't have the identifier bug in the lower right.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 26, 2014 Report Share Posted July 26, 2014 as Marc is saying, there is a huge amount of (technical) stuff that goes on between media delivery to the network, and our viewing, and hearing it on our televisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I have watched the True Detective and I didn't notice the high freq tone. Also have in mind broadcasters have different settings of compression, transmission bla bla. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 I actually didn't work on Breaking Bad. But tones like that are very easy to get rid of, using a good notch filter. I'm obsessive about getting rid of tones, hums, whines and buzzes on dialog, and it drives me up the wall when I hear it in mixes. To me, that's usually the sign of lazy or inexperienced mixers, who just push faders. Usually, but not always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 27, 2014 Report Share Posted July 27, 2014 You're hearing it on different networks, but is it always there? Assuming it's not your house (equipment etc), maybe it's the cable company. They definitely compress the heck out of their transmissions. Watch (and listen to) a show on cable, then stream it on Netflix, let alone play a BluRay. The cable companies are probably compressing it on the fly, so they may have some general universal setting that's doing bad things to some shows. They also may have a bad wiring issue. Offhand for years I would hear a GSM cellular interference off and on when watching a local TV station. I really think somebody was putting their phone on the board and it was talking to the network. If the audio was quiet, you could hear it every so often. I know it wasn't my phone because I was using Verizon CDMA that just didn't cause that noise at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henchman Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 If a program is being extremely compressed, then the mixers didn't take tgphe effort to mix it closer to spec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 And people wonder why I listen to TV shows on my built-in TV speakers. One of my worst experiences in TV watching was while on location and watching a show on my laptop with my Beyer headphones. And we can only imagine how horrified DPs must be with some of the image reproduction on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 And we can only imagine how horrified DPs must be with some of the image reproduction on TV. - And if you play the same tv show or movie in a different broadcast station; you will get a different image and sound. Am I the only one who found this chaos in 2014 unacceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I think you're being ultra critical. It is what it is. It's 30-120 minutes of program. It's not a lifetime fatal ailment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't think I am ultra critical on this Eric. It is not so hard broadcasters (and post facilities) to follow EBU or ATSC instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 It doesn't matter, Eric, so we ought to show up and hit record and turn in words that can be heard and collect our check. I know you don't believe that. It's about people not doing their jobs properly and nobody seeming to care much about it. I believe we should all do our best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 RPS: "It's about people not doing their jobs properly " not necessarily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 It doesn't matter, Eric, so we ought to show up and hit record and turn in words that can be heard and collect our check. I know you don't believe that. It's about people not doing their jobs properly and nobody seeming to care much about it. I believe we should all do our best. I agree...but...once the tracks are turned in the broadcast results are out of our hands. Post decisions are the choice someone else makes based on experience, budget, time constraints and what they consider acceptable. A losing battle I fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I think a lot of the problem is the cable company delivery. Also, flip between a local tv station over the air digital broadcast and your comcast digital channel. The over the air broadcast is significantly higher quality. I assume other delivery companies do similar amounts of compression, and there is probably no way to change that. Not enough competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I actually didn't work on Breaking Bad. But tones like that are very easy to get rid of, using a good notch filter. I'm obsessive about getting rid of tones, hums, whines and buzzes on dialog, and it drives me up the wall when I hear it in mixes. To me, that's usually the sign of lazy or inexperienced mixers, who just push faders. Usually, but not always. Sorry Mark, I mixed up SOA with BB. I think mixers can be a little proactive about asking networks, cable providers, festival projectionists etc etc about problems they hear with their films, but always in a good natured collegial way. You might as well be good natured and collegial so it will be less of a bowwow when they blow you off, politely or not. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 28, 2014 Report Share Posted July 28, 2014 I don't think shows are being mixed improperly, so much as all the automated technology that starts happening all along the way after acceptance by a network's QC ... for example (not audio): I watch MeTV a bit, and on my view, there are plenty of glitches involving commercials and the interstitial's; typically a brief freeze up 2 seconds before aa clip ends, lots of up-cutting, but also one commercial that has been starting with its slate, and ending about 1/2 way through for the last week or so! for Academy members, the best way to judge the audio would typically be at a screening, or from the screener DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigF Posted July 31, 2014 Report Share Posted July 31, 2014 I assume other delivery companies do similar amounts of compression, and there is probably no way to change that. Not enough competition. More like needing to cram more content onto the coax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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