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"workflow" issue using different recorders


Jeff Wexler

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The problem would occur if you tried to move files from say a Deva Fusion formatted CF Card into the 744t hard drive by putting the CF card directly in the 744t.  (or vice versa) without using a computer as an intermediary to navigate the different folder structures..

Both the 744t and the Deva CF recorders use a specific folder structure even though they both format the cards in FAT 32.  When you insert the CF card into either of those machines if it doesn't find it's own folder structure it assumes it is not a audio CF card and only offers to Format the card which will erase all the content. 

Gotta jump in here at this one. 

I can't speak for the Deva, but the 7 Series will accept any card that is properly formatted FAT32 (the 788 also requires UDMA cards, but that is another subject..)--the directory structure has nothing to do with it.  Obviously, the MARF slot CF cards would never work.

If a 7 series recorder is given a FAT32 card without our specific file structure, it will simply create the structure currently in use (root, daily, scene folder, etc.), plus the SoundDev folder.  All the other folders would be left alone.  If you needed to playback or copy a folder, you would simply need to navigate through the media directories to the proper folder.

The issues would be the same for trying to copy two machines data to one DVD-RAM.  Since Fostex formats theirs UDF, the 7 series would not recognize it.  The Deva, IIRC, formats FAT32 DVD-RAMs, as does the Cantar (?).

File copying should have no effect on the metadata, since the files are simply copied.  Not sure if all metadata would be recognized though.  This thread did give me a good idea for a rainy-day project to see how compatible all the files and media are.

---Matt

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good ol' FAT32 for INT HDD, EXT HDD's and UDF v1.5 for all disc media (DVD-RAM's, CD's & DVD's)

The advantage of using FAT32 for DVD-RAM and DVD-R is that they'll mount and playback on Fostex, Windows XP, and Macs. UDF is iffy on Macs in my experience, and most the editors I have to deal with are using Avid or FCP on Mac OSX.

The very cool new file system due out soon is ZFS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZFS), which promises all kinds of fairly incredible features, including gigantic file size, huge file names, and rock-solid stability. Unfortunately, it's not here yet. I'm also skeptical that it can be added easily to Deva, Cantar, Fostex, or Sound Devices, so I think it's one of those things we'll have to wait for.

--Marc

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Gotta jump in here at this one. 

I can't speak for the Deva, but the 7 Series will accept any card that is properly formatted FAT32 (the 788 also requires UDMA cards, but that is another subject..)--the directory structure has nothing to do with it.   Obviously, the MARF slot CF cards would never work.

If a 7 series recorder is given a FAT32 card without our specific file structure, it will simply create the structure currently in use (root, daily, scene folder, etc.), plus the SoundDev folder.  All the other folders would be left alone.  If you needed to playback or copy a folder, you would simply need to navigate through the media directories to the proper folder.

The issues would be the same for trying to copy two machines data to one DVD-RAM.  Since Fostex formats theirs UDF, the 7 series would not recognize it.  The Deva, IIRC, formats FAT32 DVD-RAMs, as does the Cantar (?).

File copying should have no effect on the metadata, since the files are simply copied.  Not sure if all metadata would be recognized though.  This thread did give me a good idea for a rainy-day project to see how compatible all the files and media are.

---Matt

Perhaps this behavior has changed in recent versions of the 7XX machines firmware.  When I tested it last (more than 6 months ago) I took a card out of the 744t and put it in the external CF Slot (Not the Marf CF) on the Deva Fusion and it would only say that it appeared to be an unknown card and would you like to format?  That was the only choice if you wanted to write files to the card.  I then formatted the card in the Deva wrote some files and put it in the 744 to check for compatibility. If I remember correctly the machine at that time would not recognize the card and asked to format it.  I pointed this out to the powers that be. Perhaps it has been fixed.  It was several versions ago. There was also a problem with the 744t playing timecoded files recorded in other machines.  (they would play fine, but the Time Code would start at 00:00.) That problem I believe has also been fixed.  Don't know if the Deva has fixed their interchange problems yet.  Someone with both machines and the latest firmware should do a test.

-------------Courtney

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Courtney,

Note I did say "properly" formatted... :-)

Actually, I think a good test would be to format the card under Windows and OSX and put it into each machine and see what happens. 

The 7 Series should accept a card formatted by Windows (I don't have a MAC platform to test...).  I have also successfully used cards formatted on a digital camera in the 7 Series during testing.  I wouldn't recommend it for critical production work--but I have never had a problem with the files being bad.

---Matt

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  • 1 month later...

Actually, I think a good test would be to format the card under Windows and OSX and put it into each machine and see what happens. 

The 7 Series should accept a card formatted by Windows (I don't have a MAC platform to test...). 

---Matt

Just joined this excellent forum and spotted this topic. OK - I know this topic is a couple of months old now, but thought I thought add a bit more evidence to support the fact that the 7-series will happily read any standard FAT32 disk and wav file.

I connected a 788T HDD to MAC 10.5.4 via firewire and formatted it FAT32 using Mac's Disk Utility. Then copied a folder of various wav files recorded on a number of different machines including Deva, Cantar, Metacorder, Boom Recorder, Portadrive, Fostex FR2, 744 to the 788T HDD. The disk and all files were accessible and playable and copyable to an external disk via firewire.

Paul

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One last thing I thought of which might be technically possible (but possibly foolish anyway) when using 2 identical machines. Does anyone know if the hard drive for the Deva (which is easily removable) could be pulled out and put in the second Deva, this mimicking what we used to do with the two Nagras? I am not sure where all the settings and parameters are stored (most probably on the 1st machine and NOT on the drive) so changing to the second machine could be a total nightmare of incompatible settings. Oh well, I think I have given this enough thought for the moment.

-  Jeff Wexler

Well Jeff i have done this.  A friend of mine had a hard drive go down.  It was his last hd all the others were full and he had not backed them up yet.  I got a call saying he went to format his new hd and it was coming up with a bunch of error messages, did i have one he could borrow for a week while he waited for a new drive from Zaxcom.  I sent him the drive which had approximately 45% capacity left and he used it for the week.  He just renamed the available folders and away he went.  No issues came up with post and he seemed to think all was well with his settings.  Not a very scientific test, more trial under fire but it worked.  A lesson for some as well.  Always format and test your hd's before you need them.  You never know what your gonna get from even the most respected sources.  Damage can occur at any point in the line before it/they get to you.

Graham Timmer

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Well Jeff i have done this.

No issues came up with post and he seemed to think all was well with his settings.  Not a very scientific test, more trial under fire but it worked.

Graham Timmer

Thanks for the info. I have just confirmed from Glenn Sanders that this should work (and you have confirmed that it does!). This is good news, for me, when I own 2 Devas I will be able to swap the drive between the 2 machines and yet have everything on the same drive.

Thanks for your report.

-  Jeff Wexler

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