Mozegear TIG Q28 on a job, in a sync test

[Jack Norflus]

I received my  Q28 today - I can't wait to play with it tomorrow.

[Tony Johnson]

I have 2 TIGQ28 on Red Dragons at 23.98 and they work well, jammed easily. So thats good news.

What a great device, good price, works well and tiny.

Tony

[John Blankenship]

I've tweaked six of my seven Denecke time code devices to be within two-tenths of a frame from each other, over a six hour period (several were within a tenth of a frame as per Denecke factory adjustment).  My adjusted Deva enjoys the same tight spec, and I've tweaked my Nomad close to that standard also (my seventh Denecke box is within a third of a frame in the same period -- I bought it used and haven't adjusted its settings, yet.)

 

However, I still like to feed my entire cart via a Denecke master, as then I don't need to concern myself with the one or two tenths-of-a-frame jump the Deva makes if rebooted for whatever reason.

 

Keep in mind that without locking every device, including cameras, to tri-level sync, the closest you can consistently achieve is within a full frame apart, as camera sync will depend upon where in the SMPTE "word" they are when placed into record and at what point they grab the time code for their start frame.

 

Therefore, I'm well aware that these tolerances border on obsessive, however, the warm and fuzzy feeling I get from such tight specs pleases me -- so I'm fine with that.

[RadoStefanov]

John, how do you tweak the nomad to be accurate?

[RadoStefanov]

Just compared my nomad code to Q28 after 45 minutes of shutdown. It seamed at least 10 frames off.

[John Blankenship]

John, how do you tweak the nomad to be accurate?

 

First off, the disclaimer:  This is an internal adjustment that is normally performed by Zaxcom at the factory.  KIDS, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!  I accept NO responsibility for anyone screwing up their Nomad (or Deva, or whatever)!  I'm simply discussing here things I've done during personal moments of madness.

 

There is an internal oscillator adjustment that is accessible when the cover is removed.  Due to the size and shape of the adjustment slot, I filed a jewelers screwdriver into a proper sized and shaped tool for the task.

 

I tweaked, then checked, then tweaked, then checked, etc., until the device was within the spec that I desired.  It's a very time consuming process.  The checks were done with a Denecke Master Clock.  The Denecke GR-2 Master Clock has a function that compares two time codes and displays the offset to within a hundredth of a frame.  The original Denecke GR-1 Master Clock has the same function that has just a tad less resolution, but is still sufficient for the task (with it you can calibrate to something like 1/70th of a frame rather than 1/100th of a frame -- not a huge difference).

[Johnny Karlsson]

I'm simply discussing here things I've done during personal moments of madness.

 

Isn't that what this whole group is all about?

[RadoStefanov]

First off, the disclaimer:  This is an internal adjustment that is normally performed by Zaxcom at the factory.  KIDS, DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!  I accept NO responsibility for anyone screwing up their Nomad (or Deva, or whatever)!  I'm simply discussing here things I've done during personal moments of madness.

 

There is an internal oscillator adjustment that is accessible when the cover is removed.  Due to the size and shape of the adjustment slot, I filed a jewelers screwdriver into a proper sized and shaped tool for the task.

 

I tweaked, then checked, then tweaked, then checked, etc., until the device was within the spec that I desired.  It's a very time consuming process.  The checks were done with a Denecke Master Clock.  The Denecke GR-2 Master Clock has a function that compares two time codes and displays the offset to within a hundredth of a frame.  The original Denecke GR-1 Master Clock has the same function that has just a tad less resolution, but is still sufficient for the task (with it you can calibrate to something like 1/70th of a frame rather than 1/100th of a frame -- not a huge difference).

Where is the location inside the Nomad?

[Derek H]

I know this is a TIG party and that seems to be well deserved but John's post about tweaking his Denecke and Zaxcom makes me want to bring this up. I recently bought two Betso SBOX-1N generators and one of their advertised features is that when jamming in slave mode the SBOX synchronizes it's oscillator with that of the master TC source and supposedly this results in less drift between brands or something. So, per my understanding, the SBOX is performing John's "obsessive tweaking" every time you jam it. For example, if you jam it from a Deva (which has a less accurate spec of 1.5ppm or 1 frame in 6 hours) it will then match the drift rate.

 

I don't really have the tools to test the practical implications of this "feature" of the Betso but it is interesting. Mostly I bought it because it has a great OLED screen to dummy check the TC with or use as a stand-alone reader but the size of the TIG Q28 is pretty amazing.

 

..Sorry to side track! Back to the Q28 love!

[John Blankenship]

Where is the location inside the Nomad?

It's been quite a while since I've had my Nomad open so I don't have a simple answer for you. If I recall correctly, the adjustment was easy to locate as it was next to the time code crystal. I have a fuzzy recollection that it was about two-thirds in from the front and a third in from one side, but don't hold me to that.

I make no guarantees as to the accuracies of my memory, but if you had any photos I could probably help verify the adjustment point from there. Again, no guarantees as to the accuracy of my input.

This is certainly not a task for anyone who isn't used to such procedures and I wouldn't undertake to tweak one without a Denecke Master Clock, or equivalent device, that can compare time codes with extreme accuracy.

Again, a disclaimer: Anyone who opts to attempt any such adjustment does so at their own risk. I'm not advocating it.

[mlohninger]

I'll post what I posted on the other thread, for reference, and included the Betso SBOX-1N. Curious to see what Denecke eventually decides to release to stay competitive in the small lockit market.

 

Tig Q28

6.67cm x 5.4cm x 1.27cm (45.74cm2)

53g

0.5ppm

16hrs on 2xAAA

US$439

 

Ambient Tiny Lockit

7.15cm x 5.6cm x 2.0cm (80.1cm2)

118g

~0.01ppm

12hrs on 2xAAA

US$891

 

Betso SBOX-1N

7.5cm x 6.2cm x 2.0cm (93cm2)

134g

0.1ppm ("better than")

60hrs on 2xAA

US$490

[RadoStefanov]

It's been quite a while since I've had my Nomad open so I don't have a simple answer for you. If I recall correctly, the adjustment was easy to locate as it was next to the time code crystal. I have a fuzzy recollection that it was about two-thirds in from the front and a third in from one side, but don't hold me to that.

I make no guarantees as to the accuracies of my memory, but if you had any photos I could probably help verify the adjustment point from there. Again, no guarantees as to the accuracy of my input.

This is certainly not a task for anyone who isn't used to such procedures and I wouldn't undertake to tweak one without a Denecke Master Clock, or equivalent device, that can compare time codes with extreme accuracy.

Again, a disclaimer: Anyone who opts to attempt any such adjustment does so at their own risk. I'm not advocating it.

John, sorry to hijack this topic but have you noticed Denecke Slates being of by one frame when in READ MODE?

[Philip Perkins]

All TC readers require one frame to "read" the code.  The only reader I've ever used that properly counted incoming TC was made by Gray Labs, and was a rack-mount AC box.  

 

philp

[John Blankenship]

You'll also find that a TS-1 and TS-3 may read differently.  Of course the important thing is stability -- an offset is easy for post to dial in. 

 

I've never found it to be an issue.

[Charlie Parra]

John, sorry to hijack this topic but have you noticed Denecke Slates being of by one frame when in READ MODE?

 

I also apologize for hijacking the thread.

 

Rado, the TS-3 and TS-C are frame accurate in READ mode if you enable the +1 frame read option. The TS-1 and TS-2SB display TC one frame late.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Charlie

[Philip Perkins]

I also apologize for hijacking the thread.

 

Rado, the TS-3 and TS-C are frame accurate in READ mode if you enable the +1 frame read option. The TS-1 and TS-2SB display TC one frame late.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Charlie

Right--forgot about that, and well done Denecke re this!

 

phil p

[James Arnold]

It's been quite a while since I've had my Nomad open so I don't have a simple answer for you. If I recall correctly, the adjustment was easy to locate as it was next to the time code crystal. I have a fuzzy recollection that it was about two-thirds in from the front and a third in from one side, but don't hold me to that.

I make no guarantees as to the accuracies of my memory, but if you had any photos I could probably help verify the adjustment point from there. Again, no guarantees as to the accuracy of my input.

This is certainly not a task for anyone who isn't used to such procedures and I wouldn't undertake to tweak one without a Denecke Master Clock, or equivalent device, that can compare time codes with extreme accuracy.

Again, a disclaimer: Anyone who opts to attempt any such adjustment does so at their own risk. I'm not advocating it.

This is very interesting John. I don't think I have the kit or expertise to check and tweak this but it would be great in theory. Perhaps Zaxcom could perform this on request?

I suppose individually checking each Nomad at manufacture would be time and labour prohibitive which is why they ship within certain tolerances as opposed to your 'super-tweaked' setting?

[Cloud Wang]

I also apologize for hijacking the thread.

 

Rado, the TS-3 and TS-C are frame accurate in READ mode if you enable the +1 frame read option. The TS-1 and TS-2SB display TC one frame late.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Charlie

 

hi Charlie 

 

how can I enable/disable this +1frame read option on my TS-C? Just wondering. 

 

thanks

 

Cloud 

[Ze Frias]

Re: Using the recorder's internal timecode generator when recorder is powered off versus an external master clock, thanks to all for your input. Until now, it hasn't really been an issue except for my last gig where on one of the days we had a long break between me recording audio, so after powering the Nomad on and recording, it seems that it was off by a few frames (like 6 or 7) from the two cameras that were on sync boxes with tri-level sync, at least from editorial's report. I assumed that perhaps it was time to change the coin battery (which I did anyway), but from now on, I will re-adjust my workflow to also use a master clock that remains on. Q28 looks like an excellent contender.

 

I too wish not to hijack this thread, but re: Rado's questions regarding the location where one can adjust the Nomad's oscillator, I too am curious of the location, so here's a picture of Nomad opened up from a separate thread:

[studiomprd]

is today OC day on jwsoundgroup.net ?

[fieldmixer]

Every day is OC day on jwsoundgroup.net

Are you new here?

[John Blankenship]

is today OC day on jwsoundgroup.net ?

I love irony!

[Jack Norflus]

Perhaps Zaxcom could perform this on request?

I suppose individually checking each Nomad at manufacture would be time and labour prohibitive which is why they ship within certain tolerances as opposed to your 'super-tweaked' setting?

Each nomad is tweaked prior to shipping.

[James Arnold]

Each nomad is tweaked prior to shipping.

I'm just trying to understand this Jack - John has mentioned that he needed to tweak his Nomad for improved accuracy. Is this down to time passed since purchase? He seems to be suggesting that he's improved the oscillator behaviour somewhat.

[studiomprd]

JA: " I'm just trying to understand this Jack "

so, you aren't having problems..?

if it ain't broken...

 

components, in use, may age a bit, nothing new ...