MT Groove Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 I'm trying to put together my rig slowly purchasing pieces of gear here and there. I do occasional indie features. I have been renting most of the stuff from a fellow sound mixer, but it's time to get my own gear. I need boom mics, one for exterior and one for interior. The only mics I've used and am familiar with are the Sanken CS3e, MKH60, MKH50, ME66/K6, and Rode NTG-2. The last 2 are out of the question.....garbage. So with my budget, which 2 mics would be good all around for some indie features? I'm also interested in hearing opinions on the new MKH8000 series as an interior mic. The price seems reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 One potential problem with the MKH8040/8050 is its lack of a built-in LF roll-off switch, which the larger MKH50 and MKH40 have. Coming soon is an 8000-series module that provides this capability, but that's an extra expense. If you have a low-cut filter built-in to your mixer, that can work, but some make the argument that strong low frequency rumble can overload the internal mike circuits prior to the mixer preamp stage. I've tried it both ways (cutting in the mike vs. in the mixer), and I'm not sure there's a huge difference with the microphones I've tried. I've used the MKH40 for interiors and the venerable MKH416 for exteriors, and had good luck with them. But there's no question the Schoeps CMC641 is a better boom mike for most of the interiors I run into. My feeling is that supercardioids are almost always better than shotguns for interiors, especially small reflective rooms, but as always, it depends on the situation. --Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted July 26, 2008 Report Share Posted July 26, 2008 Scott, how much will the 8000 LF adapter cost? Does it attach directly to the capsule, like the Schoeps Cut-1? How much does it add to the length of the 8050? And how long before it's available? I'm very curious to how it compares to the CMC641. I know Glenn Trew has said he thinks the 8040 is probably closer to the same coverage range as the Schoeps, and I agree the off-axis response (at least with the MKH40) is smoother. --Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Under $1500. Well that rules out Schoeps unfortunately. For your long mic I would recommend the Senn. 416 or the Sanken CS3e. Your short mic, the MKH50 (or 8050 if you want more versatility in the future). I own the 416 and the 50. Both great quality mics, and should serve you well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbrisett Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I'm very curious to how it compares to the CMC641. I know Glenn Trew has said he thinks the 8040 is probably closer to the same coverage range as the Schoeps, and I agree the off-axis response (at least with the MKH40) is smoother. I'm using the 8040 instead of the 8050 for this very reason. I think it has a much smoother off-axis response, although I will say that I don't think there are huge differences between the 8040 and 8050, I think they sound and work more alike than they do differently from each other. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wbrisett Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 My two mics of choice in this range would be 8040 for interior shots and the Sanken CS-3E for exterior use. If the budget allowed for more, I would probably trade out the Sanken for Schoeps CMIT 5U, or the Neumann KMR 82i. The Neumann KMR 81i is in your budget (at least on the high end of it), so that's another mic you might want to look at if you want a short gun for outside use. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I would go with a Schoeps 41, the little one, is that a CCM or a CMC? (which is slightly over your budget), and a Rode NTG 3 (which is considerably under your budget. Kindest regards, Simon B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Please see "mzf 8000" on my blog for a review and photos For those of you who dont want to waste time... here it is: "Sennheiser has released the MZF 8000 for the MKH 80xx series. It goes inline between the capsule and the XLR adapter. It is about 1 inch in length and weighs less than the capsule. It offers a LF roll off that is combined with a -10dB pad as well a HF boost. I have been demoing the adapter for a about 2 weeks now and I really wished that the LF roll off and the -10dB pad weren't tied together. I have been using it with a SD 302 mixer. When activating the -10dB pad a lot more gain was needed but the LF roll off was nice. No pricing info available yet. Sennheiser" As on Scott's Blog... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I think that you can never go wrong with an MKH50 and an MKH416. The MKH40 can get a little dangerous in indoor applications with noisy cameras if the frame or lighting doesn't let you in close. The MKH50 sounds as good for close ups if properly placed, and is very good outside with a softie if it's not windy. The MKH416 will give you all the gain you need for wider outside shots, and is impervious to environmental concerns. There are other good choices, but I like the reliability of these mics. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Getting some great info. here. Thanks guys. I will be in high humidity areas a lot and could definitely benefit from a mic that can handle it. Also, since I won't have a lot of mics in my kit, I will need something reliable. I think I'm narrowing it down to either the MKH60 or 416, and the MKH50 or the 8040. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I routinely carry a schoeps cmc6/mk41 and a sanken cs-3e in my bag. The schoeps obviously for indoor work, but sometimes the sanken cs-3e if it is a really reverberant or large room. Also, these two match well with the Sonotrim and Sanken cos-11 lavs I carry. -greg- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted July 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I find that the CS3e does not do too well in an indoor reverberant room, or a room with bad acoustics. Do you guys feel the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 I find a wider pattern closer to an actor is way more effective than a longer mic in a live room. I also find a properly used 416 to be a closer sound match to wires and a well placed mkh50 than the MKH60 tends to be. But in all fairness, I have used every mic mentioned above with the exception of the sanken CS3e. So that might be a great choice. Don't know. While the schoeps CMC/MK41 is more forgiving to user error, and sounds really great, I find it temperamental in adverse conditions. The new MKH50 has far greater RF shielding also, which I do not believe the 8000 does, due to its size. Am I wrong, Scott? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergio Sanmiguel Posted July 27, 2008 Report Share Posted July 27, 2008 Lately the more I use the CMIT5u the less I like it. It acts like a RF antenna when the iPhone is around or any other cell phone, walkie talkie, or video transmitter. Well, that's funny you know... Here's part of "Trew Audio" site's sales pitch: "Weight: An amazing 3 1/8 ounces! 48 Volt phantom powering Superior RF immunity Unusually low coloration of off-axis sound, for a shotgun" etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izen Ears Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 You got a bad Schoeps CMIT, who knows why or how these things happen. The first one I got had problems with both RF and phantom power. I traded it for another one and this one has never given me an ounce of problems with RF or humidity, not even in New Orleans in the Summer. But dammit I love the Sanken CS3e for noisy spots and dialog at more than 5 or 6 feet. That thing has serious reach. Also no RF problems but I heard they exist. And it's cheaper than the 416 - I would go for the Sanken before the Senny 416 or MKH60. (I've got a 60 that I haven't used in over a year.) I find the 416 to not sound nearly as natural and full as the Schoeps or Sanken. Not even close, same for the MKH60. I would like to hear comparisons between the 8050 and CMC6/MK41. I need a mic with a GVC that won't get humid! Dan Izen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well I thought that the CMIT5u was bad with RF but the DPA 4017 takes the cake for sure. horrible it is, cell phones, radios, video tx's etc make it useless for me. it must be a weight trade off with these mics because the 416 weighs a ton and is rf immune. This is very bad news indeed for a mic that had real promise. I have not had any real world experience with this DPA but I was hoping that it could become one of the best mics I use. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well I thought that the CMIT5u was bad with RF but the DPA 4017 takes the cake for sure. horrible it is, cell phones, radios, video tx's etc make it useless for me. it must be a weight trade off with these mics because the 416 weighs a ton and is rf immune. The reasons the 416 and 816 and all the MKH series are RF immune is because they are RF condensers and work on a different principle than most other Condenser mics. They work by letting the variable capacitance of the diaphragm modulate the frequency of a RF oscillator. It then demodulates that RF to create the audio that comes out of the mic. Because of that Modulation and Demodulation stage it makes it more impervious to RF interference and high humidity. It creates an un-grounded audio signal that drives the bi-polar output transistors in a true balanced fashion without need of FETs or transformers which would be a point that spurious RF interference would get in. The mic is heavy because the interference tube (case) is critical in giving it the directionality and must be robust and not easily deformed. Like when it gets slamed into a door frame on a walk and talk. -----Courtney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 When I got my first MKH 60 and 70 shortly after they were introduced in the early 90's, I had RF problems with them. There was a recall of sorts, and I sent them back to be upgraded (no charge!); when I got them back each mic had gained weight!! additional shielding had been incorporated into them, and I also got my 50's upgraded, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bash Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I tried the DAP and thought it sounded a bit thin. It is, however, well directional. I tried the Rode NTG3 last week against a 416. I thought that the Rode was just a tiny bit more 'sss'y up at those high frequency Hz. Kindest regards Simon B This is very bad news indeed for a mic that had real promise. I have not had any real world experience with this DPA but I was hoping that it could become one of the best mics I use. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthias Richter Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Well I thought that the CMIT5u was bad with RF was shooting in a flat last night and had some strange hum coming through the mic. Changed cable position on the floor, although it was away from any lighting cables, changed to wireless boom, unplugged from AC - all without success. Then we spotted the reason in the wall!! It must have been the house AC (maybe the HMIs that has been plugged into it?). Changed from CMIT to MKH and it was clean ... First time in to years of using the CMIT though. Matthias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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