Marc Wielage Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Just caught a column on the website 4KShooters.net on how some people are jury-rigging the Sony A7S -- which is a very fine still camera -- to shoot "4K" shorts and other projects. The only problem is, by the time you add all the crap to it in order to make the camera workable for timecode, monitoring, sound, follow-focus, batteries, etc., what you wind up with is this: As opposed to, say, the Arri Amira: Tell me which one makes more sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Hi Marc, It's kind of like "Where's Waldo?". I know there is a camera in there somewhere. Best, Larry F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulluysavage Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 Oh wait I know this! The Amira? I hope the Amira crushes the market over these tinker-toy contraptions. They do the job, they're just silly. I worked with an Amira and they are set up great for audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 A wild and wacky pictorial for sure --- great that you put these images up together on one page! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShubiSnax Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 You can't get an Amira for $2500 and even if you could, it still wouldn't shoot in 4k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 You can't get an Amira for $2500 and even if you could, it still wouldn't shoot in 4k.That rig in the picture didn't cost $2500 either. To be fair though, the Amira pictured is hardly set up for a movie shoot. No TC, no follow-focus, no monitor, no scratch audio receiver, and so on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 14, 2014 Report Share Posted September 14, 2014 The camera body of one of those DSLR rigs is relatively cheap, but I hear from both experienced ACs and rental houses all the time that the "economy" of shooting this way is illusory. Someone may have a cam body of their own etc, but the cost of the high-end glass, all the accessories, the time in prep to invent the wheel for this rig (often out of parts that were not designed for this particular camera), all the potential failure points among all those cables and finally the confusion and extra hassle of using such a monster on location cause smart DPs to try and talk clients out of going this way. This rig makes an Epic setup look positively logical. philp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I wonder how much cheaper this DSLR setup is, compared to a "proper" camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 You can't get an Amira for $2500 and even if you could, it still wouldn't shoot in 4k. Now the Amira can shoot fake 4K! http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/1956-new-amira-upgrade-allows-access-to-the-full-resolution-of-its-sensor-in-4k-prores They plan to add the fake-4K feature to the Alexas in a couple of months. One can argue as to whether uprezzing 2.8K (or whatever) to 3.8K UHD is worth it, but to me, it's just a number. Note that the mount pictured above for the Sony A7S is $10,000, and I think all the other crap might be a little more costly. It's not a $2500 setup. I always argue that the lenses are the most expensive part of the package. No matter how much you spend on a camera, a whole set of Zeiss UltraPrimes and a decent zoom will cost you $100K... without a camera. It's kind of like spending $5000 for a sound recorder and then $25,000 for microphones... which is easy to do, if you count wireless TX and RX in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted September 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 That rig in the picture didn't cost $2500 either. To be fair though, the Amira pictured is hardly set up for a movie shoot. No TC, no follow-focus, no monitor, no scratch audio receiver, and so on That's a fair comment. You would need a side monitor for the assistant and a wireless follow-focus setup; the TC and scratch audio would be optional. Still, I do think about the Amira's "Pick Up & Shoot" ad campaign, and there's something to be said for simplicity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhforAndAfter Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Shut me down if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's a C300 buried under all that tech in the original picture... you can see the eyepiece and the SDI ins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhforAndAfter Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Just checked. From OP's link: "In the meantime, check out some behind the scenes photos of the Cinoflex C300/C500 camera system in action from a shoot they did for Canon Imagination 2013 featuring Eva Longoria." So yeah, not the A7S. The original point still stands of course! The simpler, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Note that the mount pictured above for the Sony A7S is $10,000, and I think all the other crap might be a little more costly. It's not a $2500 setup.... I agree with your main point, that there's a lot of other expensive gak on that rig, but Cinoflex says that for under $10,000 you get the mount/plate/breakout-box thingy, Sony A7s camera body, batts, monitor/recorder....well here's their list: THE CINOFLEX / type-SA7s Camera System The under $10K total camera system breaks down with these elements: - SONY A7S CAMERA - CINOFLEX TYPE-SA7S CAMERA SYSTEM - CINOFLEX AKS KIT AND ACCESSORIES - ANTON BAUER HCX 14.5V OB BATTERIES - 2X - ANTON BAUER TWIN S CHARGER 12V SUPPLY - CINOFLEX SMART POWER AB MOUNT AC/DC MODULE - PANAVISON / PL / CANON / NIKON MOUNT ADAPTER SYSTEM - ODYSSEY 7 OLED MONITOR / RECORDER - HDMI / MICRO HDMI / BNC HD-SDI - CABLES - POWER CABLES FOR CAMERA ND ODYSSEY 7 And here's their picture of that system (plus a lens and some tape): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Just checked. From OP's link: "In the meantime, check out some behind the scenes photos of the Cinoflex C300/C500 camera system in action from a shoot they did for Canon Imagination 2013 featuring Eva Longoria." So yeah, not the A7S. The original point still stands of course! The simpler, the better. Cinoflex has been selling, or at least promoting, their system for a couple years at least. It's definitely clever (with the integrated breakouts) and well made. But when I've worked with stuff like this...let's just say we're never waiting on sound...and we're not shooting verite... A picture from Cinoflex of their system with an A7s and an Optimo zoom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhforAndAfter Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 I can barely see the camera in that one! Geez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Youngman Posted September 15, 2014 Report Share Posted September 15, 2014 Or just buy this http://blog.sony.com/press/sony-unveils-new-pxw-fs7-compact-4k-xdcam-camera-with-a-super-35-cmos-sensor/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 You would need a side monitor for the assistant and a wireless follow-focus setup Not necessarily - thinking of run-and-gun doco shoots. Which often are lower budget, minimum team, and trying to save camera rental - therefore DSLR or C300. And then they start adding bits and pieces, making things unnecessarily complicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Not necessarily - thinking of run-and-gun doco shoots. Which often are lower budget, minimum team, and trying to save camera rental - therefore DSLR or C300. And then they start adding bits and pieces, making things unnecessarily complicated. It's just that the DSLR rig pictured first is obviously not set up for run and gun, whereas the Amira in the picture is. Thus an unfair comparison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 It's just that the DSLR rig pictured first is obviously not set up for run and gun, whereas the Amira in the picture is. Thus an unfair comparison I basically agree. But alas "not set up for" doesn't always mean "won't be used for." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S Harber Posted December 5, 2014 Report Share Posted December 5, 2014 Hah! Funny to see that original posted pic as it is one of our rigs from the show Wilfred. Also funny in that there is not one piece of Sony gear on that camera as far as I can remember. A total debacle from the side of the camera design and we all had a wonderful time mocking how they got to their ends. The problem, as I saw it, was that they won an ASC award in season 1 where they were working things out on the camera side. The show was visually quite hyper stylized with loads of lens baby rigs and the like and the builds were beyond ridiculous. That said, the ASC award seemed to legitimize a lot of the odd choices made and perpetuated episodes that were shot in anamorphic that slowly squeezed the image as well as incorporated all kinds of goofy choices using visual gags. It was also somewhat of an exercise in seeing what they could build a good chunk of the time. The camera bodies began with Canon 5D/7D's and then changed over in season 2 to the Nikon D800's. Timecode was fed via a clock-it that was padded down for the audio inputs. A large addition to all that is mounted on there is the batteries on the back that were used to counter-balance the lens which made it very front heavy. The biggest challenge on set by far was for the 1st AC's who had to pull focus with a cheesy Bartek system in addition to converted still lenses which gave them a very shallow depth of field and poor handling on the follow focus side. Some very long days for those guys. It went for 4 seasons on FX and they made a ton of money so I'm sure they will be doing crazy builds like this in the future. Scott Harber CAS Just caught a column on the website 4KShooters.net on how some people are jury-rigging the Sony A7S -- which is a very fine still camera -- to shoot "4K" shorts and other projects. The only problem is, by the time you add all the crap to it in order to make the camera workable for timecode, monitoring, sound, follow-focus, batteries, etc., what you wind up with is this: As opposed to, say, the Arri Amira: Tell me which one makes more sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted December 6, 2014 Report Share Posted December 6, 2014 Well, at least if they subbed in a Sony A7 they wouldn't have to go through all that and then have to transcode all the footage too. p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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