foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi all, i know this was covered before, but just to know if we have some new toy... I have some cos 11, mke2, voice, oscars..not dpa. If i want to have the best sound when i need to plant a lav, which lav? Dpa, or another one? Txs for your answers. Fabian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 There's no way to answer this question. There are too many different ways to mount them, too many different shots where we use them, and too many types of actors and performances to even come close to saying which one is better. I have had luck with my MKE2s, COS11s, and 4071s. Placement is always going to trump mic choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi, i mean out of the body, all mics i have (lavs) lacks of bass when used as plants, i know i cannot compare them to a plant schoeps, but, the sound is always thin....despite if it's in a car, hidden in a table, in a lamp, in a furniture....they lack of body. We all agree that. I never use dpa so i dont know if the are more "round" for that kind of use. Are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Nothing between a lav and a schoeps with active cable? In size i mean... Not a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 DPAs are a bit larger than most other lavs, so that would qualify for "size between lav and Schoeps". I do not agree with the statement about lavs always sounding thinner. I'd rather say "treble boosted" to compensate for layers of clothing, designed into the mic response. Some lavs have exchangeable protection caps with different lengths, giving the user some control about the treble boost. The shortest cap for the B6 is labeled "flat response" for a reason. Inherently, a lav capsule is a pressure omni. Therefore (before that "clothing" response is designed into the mic) it has better bass response than any directional mic, and doesn't lose bass with distance. I typically use a COS-11 or B6, and nobody's complained yet. Make sure to disengage any lo-cut on the TX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate C Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 From my experience a DPA in the 406x series with a flat cap is my preference as a small (lav) plant mic over other choices in my kit. (My other options being coss11d or B6.) The flat cap is honestly the key in getting it to sound as close to a boom as possible in open air. Although Robert may of being talking about placing the mic on a body, he is still correct the placement of the (plant) mic and the voice type surpasses the mic choice. Once I recorded an elderly Maori woman with a very deep rich timbre. A DPA 4063 with flat cap, planted on a pole about 2 feet away from her, brought out her deeper tones to much, making her sound to masculine. After take three? we swapped swapped it out for a coss11d and her voice become much more lively and feminine but still retained that Beautiful Maori pride. If you can find someone to loan some DPA's off of I would strongly recommend having a listen to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 There's no way to answer this question. There are too many different ways to mount them, too many different shots where we use them, and too many types of actors and performances to even come close to saying which one is better. I have had luck with my MKE2s, COS11s, and 4071s. Placement is always going to trump mic choice. I meant as plants. It goes without saying as a body mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
480sound Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 I use the Sennheiser MKE 2. I have a Tan and Black ready to go with a Lectrosonics 400 or 450 transmitter. Mixes well with both the Sennheiser MKH 50 and the Schoeps MK41. I had the MKE's from when I used them to replace Sony ECM 50's for wireless lavs. Still work great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 foliver: " I have some cos 11, mke2, voice, oscars..not dpa....If i want to have the best sound when i need to plant a lav, which lav? " DPA " We all agree that. " no we don't! RPS: " There's no way to answer this question. " I agree with that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Hi txs for the repplies. If i hung a lav 1 meter from the head in a open space , my lavs, sound thinner than my schoeps, or neumann (this seems normal, to me at least). In my mind, i was thinking in this scenario, in my experience most of the time i'm not completely happy with the results, i. Would like to have a little more round sound. I see others have had anothers experiences, this is good. I was convinced, if the mike was close to the actor, but at 1mt.... I'll make some tests today with a cos11 a 210's without a low cut in all the chain. Txs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkautzsch Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If i hung a lav 1 meter from the head in a open space , my lavs, sound thinner than my schoeps, or neumann (this seems normal, to me at least). To me "thin" means bass roll-off, and that's why I disagree with the statement "lavs sound thin". We might agree on "more treble in relation to bass". But the bass is all there, and some treble attenuation (either via "flat" cap, or via EQ) helps a lot. Placed under a tablecloth, that lav will probably sound just fine, whereas the Schoeps will sound muffled. In my mind, i was thinking in this scenario, in my experience most of the time i'm not completely happy with the results Then boom it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ja! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 ... " We all agree that. " no we don't! ... I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ok, forget the all agree thing, and focus on the first question If i want to have the best sound when i need to plant a lav, which lav? Or may be if you need to choose just one lav for use it just as plant, which one? Ok. Txs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 If i want to have the best sound when i need to plant a lav, which lav? If you have to plant a lav to get the best sound, you're not getting the best sound. Doesn't matter which lav isn't getting you the best sound, they all aren't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Okay, I will give the most direct answer to this somewhat controversial question: DPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Karlsson Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 How about a CUB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted September 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ok, 2 simple answers, txs. I was not thinking on cub, but...why not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 CUB if you can hide it. I once had to deal with an actor singing and playing a guitar by a pool. Steadicam started other side of pool and came round to a mid shot. I rigged an RM with a COS 11 under the edge of a metal table by the actor. The result was amazing in quality and balance! If I can find it I will add to this topic mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 How about a CUB? The CUB is not a lav. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 The TRAM (and also the Sonotrim which is an "enhanced" TRAM) is supplied with a plastic fitting that holds the mike a few millimeters above the surface of a table. With the mike grill facing down, this is intended to work as a boundary layer mike. It works pretty well - sometimes. It's worth a listen anyway. (And the Cub is also a good solution. The TRAM with the boundary layer clip is multi-purpose; it can also be used as a regular lav. The Cub is only a plant mike but it's very handy and not particularly expensive so it's a good thing to have in the kit.) David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 The DPA lav has a Boundary Mic adapter that could be handy. Also Omnigoose is made from a modified 6" Shure Microflex* and custom fitted with a TA5F connector by Peter Engh. It is not a lav but an option none the less. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Any small mic can be made into a boundary layer mic. It just needs to be less than 0.2" (perpendicular distance of the center of the mic diaphragm to a hard rigid surface). This will give the first dip of the comb filter response at higher than 15 kHz. The mic does not need to point at the surface as long as the diaphragm is closer to the surface than 0.2", i.e., a MKE-2 flat on its back would work well. Since most lavalieres are very small compared to the sound wavelength, the diaphragm can point in any direction. A Cos-11 or DPA laying on a surface would also work fine. This freedom from pointing assumes an omni lavaliere as most are. Small cardioids can be used mounted at 90 degrees to the rigid surface but obviously require pointing. Commercial boundary layer mics just carry this to an extreme and get the diaphragm even closer to the surface, eliminating comb filter effects into the Bruce Wayne as sound mixer range. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Lectrosonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Well I found the take. I did master it but just to render it more "musical". Attached mike COS11 demo.mp3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foliver Posted October 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 Very nice Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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