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Boom Poles- Cabled vs Uncabled and why


JAppleton

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I'm curious to know when/why people prefer cabled poles vs uncabled. I've seen some posts here say for ENG they like cabled and narrative work they prefer uncabled.

To me a coiled cabled pole is always easier to deal with (out of sight, out of mind perhaps?) Ktek have designed great bases to plug right into while other companies have the flow through base options for cabling as well. However to me it seems like a constant headache having all the extra cable (from an uncabled pole and from a flow through straight cabled pole) to deal with. I have my boom op plugged into a sound devices MM1 and with that I feel less cable the better as they plug a 2' coiled cable from the bottom of the pole to the MM1. Nice and clean.

BUT I'm interested in other opinions and your thought process/workflow on the subject and what poles you find yourself partial to and why.

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I have my boom op plugged into a sound devices MM1 and with that I feel less cable the better as they plug a 2' coiled cable from the bottom of the pole to the MM1. Nice and clean.

 

 

Not exactly less cable. Assuming a typical "16-foot boom pole", both an internally cabled pole and an uncabled pole with a cable wrapped around the exterior, have enough cable to go from the microphone to the bottom of a fully extended pole - just over 16 feet. I tend to make my "boom" cables 25 feet in length so that if a boom op needs to stretch his arms as far away from the Power Supply (the MM1 in your setup) and Transmitter (or duplex box if there were 30 years ago) while uncomfortably holding a fully extended pole, he would have enough cable (8-9 feet) to reach without strain between the bottom of the pole and the power supply. When you use a 2 foot coiled cable between the bottom of the pole and your MM1, the cable is actually more than 2 feet if you stretch it out. Maybe not 8-9 feet like an external cable, but keep in mind that the cable inside your pole is also coiled will be longer if fully stretched out. 

 

Personally, I don't think the difference in cable length between a cabled pole and an externally cabled pole matters. If you want to nitpick, I would suggest the extra connecting points in an internally cabled pole would be less advantageous to an externally cabled pole. 

 

Josh

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I think with the lightweight poles and mics and mounts, and even the coiled cables, the weight of the pole is much less of an issue.

The coiled cable was always easier for me as a boom op, and as a mixer I own two poles with coiled cable. Non-coil users who have borrowed my poles when booming for me, seem to prefer it, with just a few exceptions.

The external cable seems crazy to me, but if you're used to it and it works for you, then I guess to each their own.

It's common now here in UK (since poles were usually un-cabled) to plug transmitter at the top of the pole. So I have removed cable from one pole to reduce weight, and to accommodate that preference.

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 For me, an internally coiled cable is out.  The convenience of not 'having to worry' about handling an external cable is a plus with EPK styled shoots and interviews (with experience this 'worry' falls away and becomes technique).

 

. BUT, on an extended pole, running along with a steadicam operator, I find it's very hard to prevent the internal cable from 'CLACKING!' aroound the inside of the pole.  I prefer the HM on the pole when the obstacles on the set is tricky and a cable where I can.

 

 As far as poles, K-TEK is nice, but fully extended gets a bit bendy (probably depends on the model).  Can't go wrong with a PANAMIC. Built like bullets ;)

 

Best

Louw

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"Why do you always want to hold the weight of ALL the cable no matter how short the pole is? This is what you do with an internally coiled pole. With a flow-thru system you don't have to."

 

Aren't you carrying "the weight of ALL the cable" no matter whether the cable is inside or outside? Also, isn't "flow-thru" system refer to an internal cable? The only way you could get around the weight of all that cable when using a short pole is to have different length cables, externally, for each length of pole you would be using --- obviously not practical having to choose which cable to use or having to limit oneself to using a pole of fixed length.

 

I don't know of a single boom operator I have ever worked with here in the US that used external cable (wrapped around the outside of the pole) --- almost everyone here uses a pole with an internal cable, either coiled or straight. The only exception to this that I knows is New York where there have been (maybe still are) boom operators who use external cabling. In other countries, of course, the situation is quite different --- I believe the norm is much more in favor of externally cabled poles.

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I have two poles with internal coiled cable and one with a pass-through cable. If I use the pass-through pole for a shoot, I really miss the internal models. Internal models are a very ergonomic setup and quiet if properly maintained. In the end, like most of our carts and bags, you will find that what works for others might not work for you.

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External cable. My boompole is Ambient QS (5.20m) and have only option for straight internal cable and not coiled. So, I bought it without internal cable option. In other words you have to clean one cable. That cable from boompole to sound cart.

 

Whatever you like and works for you. Both are correct and works.

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I always wanted to retain the flexibility to put a stereo/surround rig on my boom, so for such situations an externally cabled boom is the only solution. This was for doco stuff only. So now I only have uncabled booms and no-one's ever complained.

I do think though, that an internally cabled (coiled or straight) boom makes a lot of sense and is a very neat solution, but for the life of me I can't imagine how to do quick moves without the cable making noise. And what to do if the cable develops a problem? How quickly can you change it?

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"Why do you always want to hold the weight of ALL the cable no matter how short the pole is? This is what you do with an internally coiled pole. With a flow-thru system you don't have to."

 

Aren't you carrying "the weight of ALL the cable" no matter whether the cable is inside or outside? Also, isn't "flow-thru" system refer to an internal cable? The only way you could get around the weight of all that cable when using a short pole is to have different length cables, externally, for each length of pole you would be using --- obviously not practical having to choose which cable to use or having to limit oneself to using a pole of fixed length.

 

I don't know of a single boom operator I have ever worked with here in the US that used external cable (wrapped around the outside of the pole) --- almost everyone here uses a pole with an internal cable, either coiled or straight. The only exception to this that I knows is New York where there have been (maybe still are) boom operators who use external cabling. In other countries, of course, the situation is quite different --- I believe the norm is much more in favor of externally cabled poles.

My poles max length is 18+ feet.  If it is only extended 8 feet, on a flow-thru pole, the remaining 16 feet of cable can be held either in my hand, where it's not at the end of my pole adding weight exponentially, or the extra cable can be tucked into my belt.  I'm sure you've seen boom guys do this.

 

On an internally coiled cable pole you have no choice but to always hold the weight of all the cable all the time because all the cable is always in the pole.

 

I call it a flow-thru system to differentiate it from an coiled cable pole since both cables are internal.

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I use a pole with a coiled internal cable. I have found this to be the most convenient for extending and retracting my pole quickly without having to think about it. Whenever extending one of the sections, I always make sure to leave just a little slack at the end (extend to just below maximum extension) so as to cut down on internal cable noise. I plug an HM transmitter to the bottom of my pole, which acts as a nice counterweight. I like not being tethered to my pole or the mixer. The freedom this setup gives me to quickly and easily set down my pole to transition into micing actors or setting up plants etc. is invaluable. 

 

I've never been bothered by the weight of the pole. My Ktek is pretty lightweight as is, even at full extension. Having to mess with an external cable is much more frustrating to me than holding an extra few ounces. 

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JA: " I'm curious to know when/why people prefer cabled poles vs uncabled. "

starts right out answering his own question: " To me a coiled cabled pole is always easier to deal with... to me it seems like a constant headache having all the extra cable ... to deal with.  "

IOW: different strokes for different folks

 

" BUT I'm interested in other opinions "

sometimes I disagree, although I do agree with Joshua: " I don't think the difference in cable length between a cabled pole and an externally cabled pole matters. "...

it is all about operating efficiency, effectiveness, comfort, and convenience for the specific situation.

there are really three options: internal coiled, internal flo-thru, and external (wrap), and all three have their pro's and con's. (then there is no cable with the TX attached up by the mic, also an option)

 

Vas saiys it well: " Whatever you like and works for you "

all in all, pretty subjective!

 

Constantin muses: " I can't imagine how to do quick moves without the cable making noise "

but a lot of excellent boomers have no such concerns.

" And what to do if the cable develops a problem? How quickly can you change it? "

fortunately that is a significantly rare issue, and alternate poles are typically nearby...

how often has this actually come up for you ?

Edited by studiomprd
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Sorry, Mirror, I mis-understood your comment. I was mistaken on two things: "flow-thru" refers to straight cable (full length) internal and NOT to external cable; secondly, by "carrying all that weight" I meant that the weight has to be carried somewhere and unfortunately I did not realize the point you were making that an internal COILED cable makes you carry all the weight inside the pole.

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I always wanted to retain the flexibility to put a stereo/surround rig on my boom, so for such situations an externally cabled boom is the only solution. This was for doco stuff only. So now I only have uncabled booms and no-one's ever complained.

I do think though, that an internally cabled (coiled or straight) boom makes a lot of sense and is a very neat solution, but for the life of me I can't imagine how to do quick moves without the cable making noise. And what to do if the cable develops a problem? How quickly can you change it?

 

I tend to prefer a flow through cable for this reason I find that a straight flow through cable has less tendency to rattle than a coil at least in my experience.  Additionally the weight of extra cable while it is something you have to hold no matter what will be located at the back of or outside the pole so from a weight distribution standpoint it is better than if a chunk of coil gets pulled up toward the microphone end.

 

Also In this configuration the solution is simple should I develop a fault in the cable I just cut the end off and pull it out of the pole and switch to an external cable.  That said my solution is pretty similar to what happens to an internally cabled boom on a shoot. i.e. you wrap a cable around the outside and change the internal cable later.

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I always wanted to retain the flexibility to put a stereo/surround rig on my boom, so for such situations an externally cabled boom is the only solution. This was for doco stuff only. So now I only have uncabled booms and no-one's ever complained.

I do think though, that an internally cabled (coiled or straight) boom makes a lot of sense and is a very neat solution, but for the life of me I can't imagine how to do quick moves without the cable making noise. And what to do if the cable develops a problem? How quickly can you change it?

I've used a  VDB with stereo (5 pin xlr) internally coiled cable for years, (and K-Tek do stereo internal coiled as well) , and never have any problem with rattling cable, or with cable breakdown. The coiled cable from the end of the boom to the mixer needs replacing every now and then. VDB are excellent for doco, - 6 section, light, strong, fast.

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I think it's fair to say that everyone makes their boom pole wiring decision based on what they feel will be best for the job. There is definitely a split along national boundaries... The US prefers poles with internal coiled cable, the other side of the Atlantic seems to prefer uncabled poles, and Canada is about a 50/50 split. However, the trend we've seen developing over the last 10 years everywhere is a movement towards internal coiled cables. Presently, the boom poles sold by Trew Audio stores average 90% cabled (the vast majority being coiled), 10% uncabled, with the Canadian stores being more likely to sell uncabled poles than the US stores.

 

My guess at what explains the preferential divide: The coiled cable is definitely faster -- faster to setup, faster to adjust, and faster to relocate. A pole with an external straight cable is less likely to make noise at the pole (which is different from the sound of the set wall slamming to the ground after tripping into it over the cable). An internal straight cable is somewhere in the middle. Generally speaking, and with plenty of exceptions, these characteristics are consistent with production differences in those three areas. The US: very fast paced, high page-count days, little if any time for rehearsals, and more likely to use a wireless boom. The other side of the Atlantic is less that way, and Canada is somewhere in between. Since everyone could get by quite well with any of these wiring options, a major factor must be, simply, what people are accustomed to. But, sooner or later, everyone will eventually see the light and go with an internally cabled pole  ;)

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I use an external coiled cable!

Leave it to the Canadians  :)

Actually, I see how an external coiled cable can make a lot of sense: Stays wrapped around the pole without hanging slack, nothing inside the pole to rattle. Hmmm. Giving this some thought. Like I said... Leave it to the Canadians!

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The other advantage of external cable it has been pointed out is that if there is a cable or connector failure it is easy to swap out the standard XLR mic cable for another one. I know that some of the fishpoles that use internal cabling also provide fairly easy means to replace the cable but those routines are not as easy as just swapping the cable.

 

That said, I still would never opt for an external cable on any of my fishpoles.

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I'll take that as a compliment!

It's a Remote Audio cable :)

My friend and colleague Mike Kennedy put me on to the idea. The cable stays nicely taught when wrapped around the pole and accordians down to a manageable length when not plugged it.

Leave it to the Canadians :)

Actually, I see how an external coiled cable can make a lot of sense: Stays wrapped around the pole without hanging slack, nothing inside the pole to rattle. Hmmm. Giving this some thought. Like I said... Leave it to the Canadians!

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Jeff,

 

If I am not correct; please do it. Mr. Coufal use an internal coiled boompole. The output (short and maybe coiled) cable from the boompole goes to a box. Then from the box to your mixer with return audio (from your mixer for communication etc). Am I correct?

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Jeff,

 

If I am not correct; please do it. Mr. Coufal use an internal coiled boompole. The output (short and maybe coiled) cable from the boompole goes to a box. Then from the box to your mixer with return audio (from your mixer for communication etc). Am I correct?

Not correct. All of the fishpoles we use have a straight (not coiled) internal cable and all of the poles are fitted with the original Gary Woods QuickRelease (the only quick release I like). All of my duplex cables have a Y at each end, a male and female XLR connector and on the other end the corresponding Y with a male and female. Don does not like to use a box of any sort --- microphone (fishpole) cable is connected to female XLR and excess cable is wrapped and tucked up under his belt; the headphones are connected, with an adapter, to the male XLR. That's the way we do it (for the last 36 years).

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