kstrahm Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Hello all, so today I was working with a Maxx, and two Sony F3s needed TC. A ran a 15' BNC cable over and neither camera would accept TC. Called someone for help and all they told me was Maxx is "notorious" for not being able to sync F3s. Work around solution ended up being to generate TC from A cam, slave to B and finally slave to the Maxx. Whatever works I guess. Of course when A can finally needed a battery TC sync was lost and I needed to re-jam. Anyway this was not my equipment, it belonged to client, but I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue with a Maxx or other Zaxcom mixer and if so what might be causing it? Theory: Not enough voltage in the TC signal from Maxx? Thanks for your comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 While I can't comment speciffically what was going on in your case I can say I have jammed the F3 with my Maxx more than once with no issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Maxx time code output is exactly the same as Nomad. Output level is 3V PP. "Maxx is "notorious" for not being able to sync F3s." We have no issues jamming code to any Sony camera. I would have that specific unit tested and the cable to see if the problem can be found. I would of also used a shorter cable than 15 feet as this could of contributed to the problem. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 A little OT perhaps, but one feature I'd really love on cameras is a Mete or presence indicator for the timecode in. A bad timecode cable is quite tricky to detect.. I'd say the cable is the culprit as well . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstrahm Posted November 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I used the same BNC cable to send TC from camera back to the Maxx, so it wasn't the cable. Operator error perhaps? I admit I'm not an expert with Zaxcom stuff and trouble shooting TC! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 (edited) ks: " but I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this issue with a Maxx or other Zaxcom mixer and" it has been mentioned here... " if so what might be causing it? ...Theory: Not enough voltage in the TC signal from Maxx? " that has been discussed here, even you said: " told me was Maxx is "notorious" for not being able to sync F3s. " (not necessarily true as many here have jammed Sony cameras without incident) " Thanks for your comments. " you could have contacted Zaxcom directly (24/7 tech support)... then you would have been told: " We have no issues jamming code to any Sony camera. I would have that specific unit tested and the cable to see if the problem can be found. I would of also used a shorter cable than 15 feet as this could of contributed to the problem. " then you could have tried a shorter cable... " so it wasn't the cable." you are in denial, you have not convinced me... " Operator error perhaps? " did you RTFM ?? always a possibility, but first, try the shorter cable, or at least another one; maybe suggest to the owners that they have it all checked.. Edited November 17, 2014 by studiomprd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I used the same BNC cable to send TC from camera back to the Maxx, so it wasn't the cable. Cable can have an intermittent short - especially BNC cables. I've seen many times that the crimp on the shield goes bad. Troubleshooting 101 should have involved checking and changing the cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 A little OT perhaps, but one feature I'd really love on cameras is a Mete or presence indicator for the timecode in . On most cameras there is: as soon as TC is received and all the relevant settings are correct, either a symbol, or the new TC or whatever else will be displayed, but more importantly, nothing will be displayed (other than wrong TC, sometimes) if something is wrong. An indicator showing that something (TC?) is coming through the cable will only give you a false sense of success, when the real issue could remain undetected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franky03 Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Maxx has only 1 bnc for tc... You did check it was set to output? Franky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Mills Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 Never tried a Maxx fot this, but have used a fusion for Sony F3.. worked great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justanross Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Maxx has only 1 bnc for tc... You did check it was set to output? Franky Exactly what I was thinking. If it jammed from the cameras, it would be set to input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 On most cameras there is: as soon as TC is received and all the relevant settings are correct, either a symbol, or the new TC or whatever else will be displayed, but more importantly, nothing will be displayed (other than wrong TC, sometimes) if something is wrong. An indicator showing that something (TC?) is coming through the cable will only give you a false sense of success, when the real issue could remain undetected. Working with an F55 right now, and when jamming timecode there's no indication whatsoever of anything. The only way to know you're really jammed is to count together. I'm happy for any sort of indicator , like on the Alexa. Perfect example of what I mean; it tells you when it receives code and doesn't tell you when it doesn't. Anything that helps conclusions in troubleshooting is good Imo. I don't see how a presence indicator (purely to see if there's an actual signal, if it's loud enough etc. ). If the cable is intermittent then the indicator would be too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 . The only way to know you're really jammed is to count together. I'm happy for any sort of indicator. But the TC display is the indicator, there is no need to count together, although it can't hurt, either. When you connect the TC first thing, you just need to observe the TC jump to the new TC. If it does then your settings and cables are fine. To be sure, set your TC to a totally different value and watch the camera's TC jump. Then set it back to TOD or whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent R. Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Yeah that's what I do. First reset the timecode on the camera, then feed them. If I remember correct an Epic also doesn't blink or whatever, therefore above written standard practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Olle - there is an EXT-LK indicator you can make appear in the View Finder of the F55. It's in one of the display option pages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Great! Thanks Andy! Constantin and others: In my case, the camera is set to free run and to jam ext. Free run because it's a run and gun, and I've no timecode box on the camera (long story short, there's more to it than that), so the timecode needs to be "good enough" in case I don't have time to jam. So therefore, seeing the code jump can sometimes be tricky. And it's just a simple wish for something I think would be good on the cameras. Had no idea the F55 had it! Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 16, 2014 Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Constantin and others: In my case, the camera is set to free run and to jam ext. Free run because it's a run and gun, and I've no timecode box on the camera (long story short, there's more to it than that), so the timecode needs to be "good enough" in case I don't have time to jam. So therefore, seeing the code jump can sometimes be tricky. And it's just a simple wish for something I think would be good on the cameras. Had no idea the F55 had it! Thanks again Of course, of course, it'd be better with a proper display, but not really essential. I'm sorry, but I don't quite get what you are saying above. You don't have time to ever sync? In that case it'd be a moot point anyway. But if left off overnight, camera and recorder will likely be a couple of minutes apart so you should always see the TC jump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kstrahm Posted November 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2014 Great discussions and comments all, wish I still had access to the mixer to check settings but I now think TC *must* have been set to receive mode, not send. I just wasn't familiar enough with the Maxx menu settings to catch this. I will be studying up on this subject so it hopefully never happens again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Kstrahm Also keep in mind that Zaxcom has a support email that is monitored 24/7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominiquegreffard Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I just wasn't familiar enough with the Maxx menu settings to catch this. I will be studying up on this subject so it hopefully never happens again! By reading the maxx user manual prior to the gig you could have probably avoided that issue. And on a side note the "ext lock" sign on f3's and c-300's also often stay there even when you unplug your timecode source so they are not always 100% reliable so changing your tc value to verify that camera follows is always good practice as others mentionned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy P Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 I can't remember about the F3s settings, but on the F55 the EXT-LK disappears if there is no ext TC. On the C300 there is either an "E" to indicate it's receiving ext TC or when you unplug the TC source there's a "F" to.indicate it's operating in standard free run mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Of course, of course, it'd be better with a proper display, but not really essential. I'm sorry, but I don't quite get what you are saying above. You don't have time to ever sync? In that case it'd be a moot point anyway. But if left off overnight, camera and recorder will likely be a couple of minutes apart so you should always see the TC jump. Yes there's time to sync, but you know sometimes there's not. And so it'd be better for the camera to be "about right" always then to sometimes be totally off.. Surprisingly though, I've found the F55 to actually hold TC a lot better than the F3 and the C300 for example. And that's just by counting and conclusion. Left off for several days, the most drift from my 664 (which has probably also drifted) was just a few seconds. And in that case I'd notice a jump. But sometimes we jam when I can't see the monitor for example, when the camera is on legs or on the operator for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 Yes there's time to sync, but you know sometimes there's not. And so it'd be better for the camera to be "about right" always then to sometimes be totally off.. Surprisingly though, I've found the F55 to actually hold TC a lot better than the F3 and the C300 for example. And that's just by counting and conclusion. Left off for several days, the most drift from my 664 (which has probably also drifted) was just a few seconds. And in that case I'd notice a jump. But sometimes we jam when I can't see the monitor for example, when the camera is on legs or on the operator for example. Ok, I understand now. I still beleive, though, that if post wants a TC workflow the time to properly sync should be allowed for, but I know that this isn't always possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjafreddan Posted November 18, 2014 Report Share Posted November 18, 2014 Ok, I understand now. I still beleive, though, that if post wants a TC workflow the time to properly sync should be allowed for, but I know that this isn't always possible Agree! I use a Timecode Buddy system and it's a TC buddy for sure. Most often I use it as Rec Run / Auto Rec with the F55 sending TC to my SD664 whenever it's recording (filming documentaries). For multi camera setups it can be set to radio sync and internal free run (if the radio is lost). No more manual jamming!!! Someone needs to know the TC? Well, download the app and I'll set up a WiFi network for the sync. It's a really really cool system, and it offer genlock too. Easily 100-150 meters automatic radio sync. Post absolutely LOVES that my multi WAVS have exactly the same start and stop as the video files (except for the ambiences and extra sound bites I record myself). And I know exactly when the camera is rolling and don't have to thing about pressing Rec/Stop. Made by soundies for soundies! :-) Just my two cents Fred Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Dolinger Posted November 19, 2014 Report Share Posted November 19, 2014 Hey Fred, I'm pretty much 100% time of day/free run TC, and I have a question - what do you do about TC when recording wild sound? Does the camera have to roll as well? Sorry for the off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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