MJA Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 The 788's throws out different amounts of RF, it all depends on the unit. some are better than othes, but it all comes from the AD's (analogue to digital convertoers), there are several trick to help reduce it but no cure. my guess would be if the Nomad is throwing out any RF it will effect the range of your radios, the only thing i could suggst would be to move your antenna to you shoulders, try and put as much space between mixer and RX. just remember though you loose about 1/4 to 1/2 a DB of gain for every connection you introduce in to the antenna's so that will also effect your range RF's a bitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 There is a mod you can easily perform on you XLRs going into the 788T. This may (or may not) also help on the Nomad. It definetely helps with Ch 38. http://www.sounddevices.com/notes/recorders/788/788t-w-wireless-in-38-40/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJA Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 you should do this to any cable you can tbh, but Kish at Audio Ltd put me on to these, Neutrik ECM XLR's they are meant to work even better, but there not cheap and they don't a TA3 version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 you should do this to any cable you can tbh, but Kish at Audio Ltd put me on to these, Neutrik ECM XLR's they are meant to work even better, but there not cheap and they don't a TA3 version. Ta. Might get some cables made up and give them a go. I'd like to improve my range on the basic set up in any way possible, so if it turns out it is the Nomad causing problems then I'll have to try and mitigate this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 If I have to choose between the two WIDE BAND ALWAYS WINS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 [snip] the only thing i could suggst would be to move your antenna to you shoulders, try and put as much space between mixer and RX. just remember though you loose about 1/4 to 1/2 a DB of gain for every connection you introduce in to the antenna's so that will also effect your range [snip] Though there are losses, we have found that losses for each connector added to an RF path are very low at our 500 to 700 MHz (or 800) frequencies. Our network analyzers typically show so little loss in a connector that it is usually not even taken into account. Raising an antenna can improve signal to noise ratios by 20 dB by reducing the noise pickup from digital recorders and at the same time increasing the signal pickup by raising the antennas to where they can "see" the transmitter. In sum, don't worry about connector loss; it is less than negligible. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Lectrosonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 JA: " My scans indicate not," well, the RX is actually doing the scanning... " but I'm wondering if I really need a more detailed analysis to see what's going on. " send it off to a testing lab. CK: " Seems unlikely the 788 would be effecting the radios, " this is based on..? actually, a lot of effort (documented in older threads here) went into keeping this to a minimum on the 788, after the 744 proved to have some issues. RF emissions from processors and drives, etc are always a potential issue, and a lot of work is required to keep it minimal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Todays the wide band wireless is a huge selling point, because it's really helpful for us. Larry, from manufacturer POV; there is a huge difference in design for filters etc from classic 25MHz block? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryF Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 As filters get wider, for a given Q (component Quality factor) the skirts become less sharp. That is to say, out of band signals are rejected to a lesser degree. Tracking filters can be added to the inputs, but these become trickier the wider range they have to cover. Varactors used to tune the tracking filters are poor at handling 3rd order intermod at the lower end of the control voltages. Switching diodes are much better but the number that have to be used for wideband tracking becomes onerous. Front ends can be designed to have better large signal performance but this usually requires more power, which is not easily available in battery operated designs. Over on the transmitter side, wider tuning is not as difficult except it precludes the use of circulators in the final. We have measured transmitters that claim to have low transmitter to transmitter intermod and have found they aren't very low at all, including various "digital" transmitters. All this to say, design is always a compromise and wide tuning ranges force some compromise. It will be interesting, if in a few years, the regulatory powers collapse the wireless bands to a narrow 4 to 6 MHz wide band or several narrow bands separated by 30 MHz or so. Designs will go through another major iteration and maybe back to narrower bands. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Lectrosonics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire soundie Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ta. Might get some cables made up and give them a go. I'd like to improve my range on the basic set up in any way possible, so if it turns out it is the Nomad causing problems then I'll have to try and mitigate this. James drop me a line if you're ever around Manchester, we can compare kit to see if there's something wrong with your setup. All I can say is that I've never really had range issues with the SR and Nomad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arnold Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 James drop me a line if you're ever around Manchester, we can compare kit to see if there's something wrong with your setup. All I can say is that I've never really had range issues with the SR and Nomad. As I live in Manchester that will be easily done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VM Posted November 24, 2014 Report Share Posted November 24, 2014 What do you mean higher position? a little above the mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VASI Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 Thanks Larry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 25, 2014 Report Share Posted November 25, 2014 you should do this to any cable you can tbh, but Kish at Audio Ltd put me on to these, Neutrik ECM XLR's they are meant to work even better, but there not cheap and they don't a TA3 version. Been using the EMC since 2008. Worth it, especially on boom cables on the mic end. With star quad of course... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 after all that angst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted November 28, 2014 Report Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yes was pretty weird they had the 100mW. Kismet maybe. I have a Zaxcom transmitter that has the menu option to switch to 100mW. Chosing that has no effect on the actual transmitting power, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Constantin: " Chosing that has no effect on the actual transmitting power, though " more angst... more cognitive dissonance... Oh, the humanity! If only you hadn't told him... the bliss could go on, and he might never have known the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisyking Posted November 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 Gave 'em a test today. Absolutely massive range and could do across a football stadium no problems, but you are all correct the 100mW gave a few tens of meters extra but proportionately not much. And right next to 4 Millbank where all the political broadcast companies are (including mine), so there would be plenty of radio there. Thanks Senetor. You know your stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pindrop Posted November 29, 2014 Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have a Zaxcom transmitter that has the menu option to switch to 100mW. Chosing that has no effect on the actual transmitting power, though I have a Zaxcom transmitter (TRXLA2) where switching to 125mW does have an effect and I see it immediately on the signal strength displayed on a frequency counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisyking Posted November 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2014 You should get about 3dB extra, but as far as extra range, have you done a test? I'd be interested to hear the results. I got about another 20 to 30m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crussell Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 All this to say, design is always a compromise and wide tuning ranges force some compromise. It will be interesting, if in a few years, the regulatory powers collapse the wireless bands to a narrow 4 to 6 MHz wide band or several narrow bands separated by 30 MHz or so. Designs will go through another major iteration and maybe back to narrower bands. Best Regards, Larry Fisher Lectrosonics So, (if it's ok to ask a question that may be unrelated or dumb) if we've only got a band that's 4-6mhz, or several of them, at what point does it make sense to look outside of UHF? I know it's the best propagation characteristics for our use but if we're crowded out to that degree, what's next? Can UHF be made to work that narrow or is it an impossible situation and we've got to move? And I guess the follow up question (maybe my root question) is, if I buy any wireless system now, will it be a doorstop in 10 years? How many years do I have for the investment to pay off and turn a proper profit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 ten years? in a year or so i guess you will recover the cost of the stuff. and then be prepared to upgrade whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crussell Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 10 year old wireless systems are still out working every day. What's the ROI on a system purchased today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisyking Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 For me getting Wisycoms seemed to make good sense as they have 240MHz of bandwidth. The government will for sure be selling of frequencies in the future, which is why it makes sense to have more frequency options. Wisycom really need to lower their prices though. I got mine in the sale at almost half price, but at full price they are way over the top, and quite frankly judging by build quality probably not worth the full asking price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 There's a lot more to what radios to buy than their bandwidth, wide band really isn't the panacea some people seem to think it is. I've never ever had a problem with frequencies, despite only owning 'narrow band' Lectrosonics, and travelling the world with them. Every time I use them I'm glad I've invested in them, they're well built, well designed, reliable, pretty much perfect. I have 8 channels and wouldn't dream of buying another brand. But don't let my comments stop you enjoying your Wisys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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