cory Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 A team that works with me is just coming off a gig where some hard lessons were learned. Luckily we had backups in place. Unfortunately we definitely had to use them. I was not out in the field for this one so I don't have all of the information, but I was helping coordinate the setup and running around finding solutions when things went down. This is what I gathered from talking to the 3 guys in the field. Want to post this here to 1) let folks thinking of trying the same thing know what to do/not do. 2) hopefully get some insight as to alternate solutions 3) see if other folks have encountered the same thing. pre tech day We wanted to use 2 TRXLAs to transmit four channels to 1 QRX200. I didn't remember if we had the stereo version of the TRXLAs or not, but my buddy also working on the job went into the extended menu and brought up "stereo mode" and saw two sets of meters and told me we did. That was a mistake. TRXLA mono AND stereo TXs can get to that menu option, but it only works on one. The trade off? You lose neverclip and around $450 for the modification, but you gain stereo. I really think that different menus should be loaded on to each model so as not to confuse users. This is not the only menu item that isn't functional, and it is my opinion that there should be no menu items available for features that are not available on a product. This is the day before the real tech day, so we had enough time to work around... By buying and installing the transmitter option for the Maxx to deal with two of those channels and switching to a TRX742 to transmit the other two channels (this is done at the end of the day) actual tech day Maxx transmitter falls short. During the course of the day we found that the range on the Maxx transmitter was less than acceptable. 10-15 feet AT MOST with direct line of sight in an indoor environment. Decision? add a dipole antennae (this is what we had available, I'm sure there are other better options) to try to boost range. *Note, we couldn't add the dipole to the receiver end for external production reasons. Results? Indoors test environment, the range is greatly improved, but the ergonomics are reduced significantly (not to mention we're now adding third party products.) But we decide to go with it, as we're running out of options and time. TRX/QRX flange/phase issue? Not quite sure how to explain this one. Basically, when we took the 4 signals out of the QRX and tried to monitor them through headphones (either combined, or 2 to a side) there was a crazy "phasing ish type flange issue" can't really describe it any other way. Flipping the phase did not help. Eventually needed to use the QRX for only 2 channels and introduce a different stereo receiver. Didn't have time to test for sure what was causing the problems. Given more time I would have liked to switch out the recorder (664) to see if it was a headphone monitoring issue. TRXs seems to modulate the gain of tone We generate tone on Maxx. looks steady on the Maxx's meters. Send it out via built in link and TRXs to qrx. Receiving end, the tone is fluctuating +-2db around where it is supposed to be. All four channels. Could this be NC or limiting somehow kicking in where we don't want it to be? shoot day 1 1 TRX drops dead turns off suddenly. We change to fresh batteries. No dice. Change again. Out for the count. We substitute it out. Maxx internal TX -- even with dipole boost -- falls short again Out in the field we were reduced to 20-30 ft range, far less than what we need. We switch out transmitting options quickly and stop using Maxx internal TX altogether. Other than those issues, the remaining QRXs and TRXLAs worked like a dream, and I'm really happy with them. But it would have been nice to be able to use the 4 channels and internal maxx transmitter. TRX742 was a complete champ. Hope this was useful/not too confusing/ would love to hear your thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McQueen Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 something was wrong with your maxx tx. I've had great experiences with using that transmitter with 100' easy. as to your other experiences, i understand your concern with the stereo/mono tx's software. it can be confusing and pretty much requires emailing zaxcom your serial number to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 cory: " 3) see if other folks have encountered the same thing...would love to hear your thoughts! " yes, they have... CRAP happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 something was wrong with your maxx tx. I've had great experiences with using that transmitter with 100' easy. as to your other experiences, i understand your concern with the stereo/mono tx's software. it can be confusing and pretty much requires emailing zaxcom your serial number to confirm. Michael-- were you just using the built in whips, or were you boosting the antennae range somehow? Since the TX unit is installed internally, it doesn't seem like there's much we can switch out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 so you were trying to send 4 channels to camera.... 2 channels from each TRXLA transmitters wired up as stereo hops? They gave you stereo cables with mono transmitters? Wiring two lavs, or two channels from a mixer, going into a Lemo3 is a pretty specific cable. I am following that you were definitely trying to use Zaxcom wireless to feed the camera (and eventually did with the Maxx transmitter and 742 (?), and you were also using Zaxcom wireless on the subjects? When you heard the flanger/phase issue, what gear was involved at that time? This wasn't when you were trying to put mono transmitters in stereo mode, was it? Depending on settings, if you have a QRX set up to receive 2 separate transmitters and then put it to single mode, that single transmitter will be routed through both outputs. possibly you were transmitting a stereo signal (though a mono input, so the same signal on 2 channels) and that was causing some sort of weird problem. Also sending a mono signal to a stereo receiver will output that one track to both channels (depending on model and settings). Like I have an older RX900S receiver and if I put my TRX900AA into mono transmit mode (using it with a lav instead of the stereo adapter STA150), the RX900S will output the same on both of the 2 outputs. I never noticed some weird issue like you describe, but I wonder if a miswired cable could cause something like that. I also never really compared them to where I would have heard that, I just saw the levels on a muted track. Something is not right if the MAXX is only getting that kind of range. Baring a major bit of RF interference, check the antenna or cable (if you have one). Check that there isn't a missing pin or something. That type of range sounds like a broken antenna/connector or maybe something is really out of calibration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 What were you trying to do actually? First thing I'd check with the Maxx transmitter is the power level setting. It can go as low as 25mW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 What were you trying to do actually? First thing I'd check with the Maxx transmitter is the power level setting. It can go as low as 25mW. This chart shows you what we were thinking of originally.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 I agree with Michael - not sure if it's operator error or some harware issue but I routinely easiely get well over 100 feet on the internal maxx transmitter using just a whip. If the dipole increased the range there is a chance that your whip was faulty. Did you try changing the whip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 The boot up screen on the tx gives you the model. You would have been able to determine if it is a stereo version or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 TRX/QRX flange/phase issue? Not quite sure how to explain this one. Basically, when we took the 4 signals out of the QRX and tried to monitor them through headphones (either combined, or 2 to a side) there was a crazy "phasing ish type flange issue" can't really describe it any other way. Flipping the phase did not help. Eventually needed to use the QRX for only 2 channels and introduce a different stereo receiver. Didn't have time to test for sure what was causing the problems. Given more time I would have liked to switch out the recorder (664) to see if it was a headphone monitoring issue how was the output cable wired? Was the output set to analog or digital? Was the output set to noramal or swapped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 By buying and installing the transmitter option for the Maxx Maxx transmitter falls short. During the course of the day we found that the range on the Maxx transmitter was less than acceptable. 10-15 feet AT MOST with direct line of sight in an indoor environment. Decision? add a dipole antennae (this is what we had available, I'm sure there are other better options) to try to boost range. TRXs seems to modulate the gain of tone We generate tone on Maxx. looks steady on the Maxx's meters. Send it out via built in link and TRXs to qrx. Receiving end, the tone is fluctuating +-2db around where it is supposed to be. Who installed the tx option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Who installed the tx option? Hey Jack, after the last day of shooting (today) I am going to try to do a full de-brief with the team (though it's going to be a little tough right before the holidays) and hopefully have more information. Maxx TX was installed by the dealer, not us. C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Norflus Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 Maxx TX was installed by the dealer, not us. Nothing against the dealers service department but my guess this may have been the root cause of most of your issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 cory: " or were you boosting the antennae range somehow? " er, that would by by better positioning... jack asked: Who installed the tx option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted November 20, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 jack asked: Who installed the tx option? I don't want to shit on a dealer prematurely (need to find out what's up first), especially since they did us the favor of installing at extremely short notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 20, 2014 Report Share Posted November 20, 2014 cory: " I don't want to shit on a dealer prematurely " sorry... just who do you want to crap on prematurely ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ao Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 The boot up screen on the tx gives you the model. You would have been able to determine if it is a stereo version or not. you can slow down the boot-up screens sequence by holding down the DEC key while powering up a zaxcom transmitter, to get a better look Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cory Posted November 21, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 Update: took TX back to the dealer and they are going to do some more investigating as to what is going on re:built in TX for Maxx. Big big big thank you to those guys. Also, they did some digging around and found some information that I really think all Maxx users with TX should definitely know about. (out of respect for Manufacturer and Dealer I'm deferring posting said info for the moment in hopes that one or the other will post, hope you understand) Please keep in mind that I am a huge Zaxcom fan. But I do think that their communication game needs to be stepped up-- had we not been extremely careful with this shoot in terms of having lots of backups, things could have ended really badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 21, 2014 Report Share Posted November 21, 2014 cory: " (out of respect for Manufacturer and Dealer (client) I'm deferring posting said info for the moment in hopes that the will post, hope you understand) " so, then, what is the point of this thread: " ...lessons in the field" ?? to tell us that there are lessons you learned, but that you aren't going to share...? and yes, now that you have disclosed that you have a client involved does at least provide understanding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrecorder Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Just tell us, instead of being coy. Information is for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abe Dolinger Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 You can't spell Cory without coy (; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thope Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yes, keen to find out this super secret, super important maxx info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 I think tar and feathering a fellow forum member because they choose to give a manufacturer and vendor the opportunity to speak first leans more than a bit toward being abusively manipulative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macrecorder Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 Asking someone to share some apparently important information which could have a bearing on our equipment use is hardly being 'abusely manipulative' or 'tarring and feathering' - that is an absurd claim. No doubt we will learn about it in due course from whoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted November 22, 2014 Report Share Posted November 22, 2014 ... No doubt we will learn about it in due course from whoever. Which is what was originally stated and why I think it was a rush to judgment, and unfair, to accuse Cory of being "coy." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.