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smicycle

Burning Bridges

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So, Senator, I take it your point is this: You and your client have different expectations, tough shit.  This is indeed correct.  I didn't agree with a lot of what you said in your point by point rebuttal, but it seemed to boil down to that.  If I'm wrong please feel free to correct me (yes I do realize you're going to do it whether I've asked you to or not).  I have a hard time understanding your answers sometimes because they follow the same baffling template: sometimes, but not always!  They somehow invoke all conceivable answers on the solution spectrum while simultaneously eliminating the other person's perspective/solution/whatever.  It's fascinating to watch.  I think you should have been a lawyer (maybe not a trial lawyer, however) and I'm not being facetious.  I think you truly missed your calling.

 

I came here half for an answer/half to vent, so yeah, some of my posts have been a bit whiny. The weird thing is that I'm a generally upbeat person and am not one to complain about work stuff, ever.  I realize I am extremely fortunate to be doing what I'm doing, especially compared to my past jobs, what with graduating at the peak of the recession with a degree in a dying industry.  That being said, I was taken advantage of a lot during my four year crawl across broken glass before I started making some headway, and I'll be damned if I let anyone treat me like that again. 

 

Ok, shit's getting real (lulz).  I'm going to go bake some bread or something.

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Don't sweat it. They love you until they hate you, until they need you and then they love you yet again. I can't even begin to count all the going steady and break ups and make ups I've had with Prod Co's, Producers, Directors, UPM's, etc....

CrewC

 

To Many Fish in the Sea.

 

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To everyone else: thanks for the kind words and encouragement.  They're making me feel a lot better about this.  I'm also amazed the Senator hasn't chimed in to call me an idiot yet.  WONDERS NEVER CEASE.

 

I have never, ever, seen The Senator call anybody an idiot here. You may take what he says as an insult, but more often than not, he's pointing out something that may not be obvious to the person asking the question.

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I have never, ever, seen The Senator call anybody an idiot here. You may take what he says as an insult, but more often than not, he's pointing out something that may not be obvious to the person asking the question.

Indeed I am prone to hyperbole. His writing style, however, does come as close as possible to calling someone an idiot without actually doing so, therefore I call semantics.

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The moment you begin to ask questions like this is the moment it's time to take a step up.

 

Try not to let emotions into the equation: it's business.

 

Be a pro, even when breaking up.

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simi: " His writing style, however, does come as close as possible to calling someone an idiot without actually doing so, therefore I call semantics. "

Baloney  ???

If I were calling you an idiot, it would be completely clear to you, and everyone; and I put my name on it, too!

Edited by studiomprd

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Love it.

Step up to the challenge of getting new clients. I'm upgrading my cart soon and have several clients I will have out grown. Thanks for the insight.

I don't think you should take what Senator said personally, it's part of being in this forum.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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simi: " His writing style, however, does come as close as possible to calling someone an idiot without actually doing so, therefore I call semantics. "

Baloney  ???

If I were calling you an idiot, it would be completely clear to you, and everyone; and I put my name on it, too!

Fair enough.

 

I don't think you should take what Senator said personally, it's part of being in this forum.

It doesn't have to be, though.  Maybe some kind of filter would do...

 

I think it's funny that everyone assumes I had a mental breakdown and called them up like I was harassing my girlfriend who had just dumped me or something.  I guess it's worth mentioning that after our conversation on friday, said client called me up on saturday and apologized for the way he spoke to me and said he should have handled it better.  Emotionally charged language has only been present on this forum, and I never used it IRL.  

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It doesn't have to be, though.  Maybe some kind of filter would do...

 

there is one in your profile settings.

much recommended and good for the mood - unfortunately you still get to see the replies ;)

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simi: "  Emotionally charged language has only been present on this forum, and I never used it IRL. "

so, this forum is not real life...  I see...?  er, no I don't.  :blink:

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simi: "  Emotionally charged language has only been present on this forum, and I never used it IRL. "

so, this forum is not real life...  I see...?  er, no I don't.  :blink:

I hate to break it to you, but this forum is not in fact real life.  It is the World of Warcraft of production sound mixing.  If all the servers exploded and your phone vanished into thin air your real life would go on, oblivious to the loss, except for the massive amount of time poured into it.

 

That analogy does however leave out all the information I've gathered here that I use in the real world.  Try pulling that in WoW.

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smicycle : " because they still want to pay me jack shit. "

IOW, you had set your price...

and you said: " plus they were paying me! a lot! "

and it was apparently a mutually beneficial relationship, somewhat symbiotic, too.

" all they want to pay me is $450 TOTAL. "

we are discussing kit : labor in several threads, it seems...

I work for a huge major client that typically insists on my using their gear, and pays me only for labor.  while some mixers pass on their gigs, I don't!

BTW: did they ask you to buy your own kit, or did you do that and it is you asking them to now rent yours when they already have a kit that seems to have been serving you both well..?

" they supplied a pretty mediocre kit. " and I'm guessing that you demonstrated that it isn't about the clubs, but about the golfer.  they, like most of our clients, have been paying you for performance and results, not so much for shiny toys.

" dealing with their shitty equipment " oops, it has been demoted... now it is shitty equipment ?

" what I realized now to be "meh" money, " and now you are getting more ambitious..?  -- BTW, it really is not about what we here charge or think of your rates,  you seem to be discussing you and this client.

" they also expected me to show up and load camera/lighting gear, and in general kind of act as a PA. " I don't know the details of your specific situation, but this is not all that uncommon on many gig's with many clients... typically smaller ones, and so called full service production facilities.

JP agrees: " In terms of helping carry and set up lights etc, nothing wrong with that on simple small crew jobs (non-union interview type stuff). The one thing is to make sure the sound kit is ready before you help another department, or it makes you look like a slacker. Break down your kit first, then you can help break down light stands and wrap cables. "

" They also expect for me to pay for a taxi to bring my gear to the production house first, " It is usually up to us to get to work.

"   I have expressed to them that that makes no f#@king sense, for various (what I assume are) obvious reasons. "

perhaps from your POV, but perfect sense from theirs;  the question seems to be: do you still want the gig they have to offer you..?

thus Q#4: why should they meet your recently added demands..? maybe they should go find someone like who you were and give them this opportunity for: " plus they were paying me! a lot! "

they are used to a PA/grip/utility/sound tech, and you want to be a DPS.

" They've told me to take it or leave it.  They maintain that absolutely NO ONE get's $550 for labor and $250 for that basic kit in NYC. No soundies get paid that!  That seems an odd position to hold considering I GET PAID THAT BY EVERY OTHER CLIENT I HAVE. "

you are in a different world than they are. both of these worlds exist!

They have the jobs, and there are, as we keep saying in other threads, plenty of people, --just like you were!-- who would maybe kill for these gigs...(maybe someone still working retail ?)

" If I mention that they also expect me to pay for transporting my gear, they tell me to just use theirs. "

yep!

" The difficult part is that there are other mixers who are willing to take that shit rate (older guys, of all people), and it lets the client get away with this nonsense, so I have no bargaining power whatsoever. "

yep...

that is (show) business

" I'm not the same person I was over 2 years ago when I started "

yep, but the gig has not changed; it is the same gig it was before... as you have summed it up, a chance to learn, and grow " plus they were paying me! a lot! "  " while working with this company doing the job(s) they needed done at the rates they were paying.

" I've poured countless hours into this so I can get the job done right so that I can earn a proper rate. "

yep... elsewhere

 

They either still see me as a PA or really don't respect what we do. "

it is the former, more than the latter!  it isn't what they see you as, but what they see their gigs as.

 

" to see if anyone had gone through a similar situation and how it was resolved - or wasn't. "

yep, and yep.

 

I am a bit surprised that they are giving you $100 more for your gear at all... they already have their own!

let me point out that I have been building this reply as I first read your post, and I have yet to see what others have said here...

 

I'm already convinced that you are ready to become less available (if at all) when this client calls to book you. (that is the how to resolve it)... real simple, and they won't bother you more than once or twice.

after all that you already know: " it seems like I've outgrown them. "

it is up to you, how you part company, as there are: 50 ways to leave your lover  and there is that old saying about being careful about whose toes you step on while going up the ladder, as you may meet them again on the way down...  you may meet these folks again, elsewhere...

 

" My oldest client is being difficult and unfair (so say I)."

they could well be saying the same thing about you...

 

Am I an entitled ass "

possibly, but that is not the topic here...

.

 JF, and AFM (+ more) said it well...

and you may meet these folks elsewhere with bigger budgets!

AD's first comment was fine, but then he added: " With due respect your former employer sounds like an asshat. "  and I disagree with that.  the little production house is no more an asshat than the OP.  The OP has grown, the gig hasn't!

CM: " It would appear these folks do not really get it, and probably never will.. "...

I disagree with this as well...  actually they get it, the OP doesn't get it.

KS: " You might think you're burning a bridge "

that depends... on how the exit scene is played.

I like what JB said : " You're making something that is quite simple into a defensive confrontation, which results in you coming across as an amateur... Let me offer some perspective on it this way: If a doctor defensively argued why his rates were justified, would you return to that practitioner, or would you opt for a doctor who approached your health care as a competent professional? "  and some folks get great care (and have their lives saved) at the Free Clinic.

 

simi: " So that went poorly. " no it did not!

 

 

I'm also amazed the Senator hasn't chimed in to call me an idiot yet.  WONDERS NEVER CEASE. "

sorry I'm late... just got here...

note that I did not call you an idiot, but you have unreasonable expectations ...(of your client)

 

 

Senator,

 

I think you are wise in your observations and counsel and have provided some real "balance" here. 

 

Sometimes we, as we should, (especially in our early years) move forward in our craft, while some of our clients do not.  To this day I can think of quite a number my early clients who still continue to do low budget jobs and can no longer afford me.  It is no criticism of these clients.  In fact most of them have a good business, employ a number of full time people, and are providing a reasonable income for themselves and their employees, while delivering a much needed "economical" product for their clients. 

 

However there are a few of these low budget producers, who I really like and view them more as friends.  They still don't pay a great rate, and their budgets have not increased much, but they took a chance on me when I was "green" and we developed some very close relationships.   As a result, I continue to work with a few of them (at a rather low rather rate) BECAUSE I WANT TO!

 

There is no reason to be angry with someone who is unwilling to pay your rate.  That is their prerogative!  Your prerogative is to turn them down.  Contrary to popular belief, not all producers are evil!  In fact MOST are not!

 

Tom

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