Bag Powering Set Up

[ljrg]

Hello everyone,

 

I've been spending the last few days doing lots of research to find the best way to power my kit.

I've decided to forego options like L-type batteries and also the Remote Audio BDS.

Instead I've decided to go for NP-1s with a Hawkwoods cup/distro. The reason being that I wasn't totally convinced the BDS provided much more functionality than provided by the Hawkwoods cup, and the form factor of the NP-1 looks very snug for my bag.

 

I'm powering primarily a Sound Devices 302 and a Tascam HD-P2, I've read about some issues with the HD-P2 getting funny about taking too high a voltage, but luckily Hawkwoods do some of their cups in regulated versions, with the NPU-SQN4s cup allowing 12v regulation, which seems perfect for my needs.

 

http://www.hawkwoods.com/products/details/details.php?code=npu-sqn4s&mainMenuItemToSlide=4&asi=np-70&asi2=mr4

 

I also need to get a cable that goes from hirose to the jack plug power input on the HD-P2, which is frustrating as these things come in multiple diameters, but I'm pretty sure it's the 2.1mm jack. I've also found a hirose to 2.1mm jack cable that actually includes a 12v regulator in the cable, maybe this is a better option and choose a different Hawkwoods cup that perhaps has a better layout format for my bag set up?

 

http://www.hawkwoods.com/products/cables_and_plugs/cables_by_compatibility/cables_for_tascam.php?mainMenuItemToSlide=10

 

Anyway, the process of finding the best method has been a real headache! As proper bag powering is really new to me, I'd like this post to help someone that's also overwhelmed with the amount of options available, and if you don't mind I'd also like to ask a couple of questions to clarify what I've found...

 

Is the above method going to work and power my things well and have I made the right choices with regards to the voltage concern for the Tascam?

 

Is the 12v regulation in anyway a negative feature in some cases? Are there any drawback to it?

 

And finally, is the NPU-SQN4s cup with regulation a good choice or would having the cable with it's own seperate regulation be a better alternative? That way the 302 would be getting non regulated power..

 

Thanks so much if you're able to share any thoughts.

 

[VASI]

Check and the AudioRoot solutions.

[Lancashire soundie]

For NP-1 batteries get SWIT, they're cheap and work well.  I've had them for years, absolutely no issues.

 

http://www.proav.co.uk/swit/cameras-accessories/batteries-power/np-1-style-batteries-chargers

 

The HD-P2 has an awkward power socket that is prone to the plug coming loose.  Certainly the plug will stick out when in your bag.  I suggest you open it up and replace the socket with a flying lead terminating in a Hirose socket.

 

Make sure whatever NP-1 shoe you get has plenty of Hirose outputs so you can power a variety of devices.  You should also invest in a Hirose extension cable, in case the cable from the shoe becomes damaged.  That way, you can simply power your mixer from one of the sockets.

 

One last thing - the HD-P2 can be a noisy thing.  If you're powering multiple devices from the same battery you may experience faint digital noise across your mixer's input.  Certainly that's what I found when it was connected to my SQN.

[ljrg]

Thanks a lot guys,

 

SWIT is actually the brand I'd decided on, so that's great to hear another testimonial!

Yeah I was worried about the flimsy jack plug, that's a good idea to replace it.

 

The AudioRoot stuff looks really interesting, I'll be having a look into that tonight as well, thanks.

[Constantin]

The drawback of using only regulated outputs is that you have no way of knowing the condition of your battery and thus it will die without a warning. A cable with regulator built in won't help here either. The 302 will provide some info to that end, but only if you power it unregulated (which it will be fine with), but you'll need to press that button. Or you could build your own voltmeter or choose the Remote Audio BDS after all, which is ready for your future needs with six outputs and it can have a USB port for charging stuff and you can get a display for voltage with it. No regulated outputs though, afaik.

The AudioRoot stuff may be good, but pretty pricey

[ljrg]

Ah of course! Would power cut as soon as the battery dropped below 12v too?

 

I do remember another problem with the Remote Audio stuff is there seems to be absolutely no U.K. dealer... Google searches are no good, and the three websites listed on the Remote Audio site don't seem to stock anything. I wonder where U.K. people are buying this stuff.

[gavin]

Very happy with swit, been using them for 10 years,

Also look at battery bud, very good, cables enter from the bottom of the unit, very tidy

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687520-REG/Cable_Techniques_CT_BB_002_Battery_Bud_II_Portable.html

[jwill]

Swit and Varizoom batteries and chargers look identical!! Varizoom I believe to be less expensive 

[pkautzsch]

Ah of course! Would power cut as soon as the battery dropped below 12v too?

 

Any (proper) lithium NP1 will cut off at 13 volts to avoid cell damage.

 

You could also simply connect a voltage display to one of the hiroses. Get a small housing for it and mount it to your bag next to RX/mixer/whatever.

The trouble I had with NP-1 cups (hawkwoods or other) is getting the battery in and out of it when the cup is buried in the bag. You need to make sure that no cabling comes in the way, and that the cup stays where it should. Works fine if your bag has a separate compartment at the bottom or elsewhere - but then you got 5 cables coming out of that compartment.

I soon switched over to a used NP-1 compartment I got cheap in the bay, fully enclosing the battery. This feeds a DIY distro box which in turn feeds the gear. It can also switch to external (XLR-4). No regulation, as all my gear takes 9...18 VDC.

[ljrg]

Thanks Peter that's super helpful. I think perhaps the best option is to use a voltage display with regulated cup/distro.

 

The HD-P2 is proving to be perhaps a little more troublesome than I had hoped. I sent an email to Tascam support about the voltage concern, because in this thread: Tascam actually claims you can use unregulated power no problem.

 

But in the response I just received myself I got this:

 

"Thank you for contacting Tascam U.K.
As the HD-P2 does not have a separate external DC Input, none of the options you suggest are recommended without the risk of damage to the unit.
The safest possibly would be the regulated DC input but you use this at your undertaking."

 

The options I suggested were 12v regulation with the Hawkwoods, no regulation with the Hawkwoods, and separate regulation within the cable from the cup/distro to just the HD-P2.

 

The response is very confusing as it seems to recommend the only safe way to power portably is with internal AA batteries.... really?? It's also very confusing as Tascam seem to contradict themselves now as in the thread I posted above Tom Duffy from Tascam is saying you can throw anything up to 24v at it!

 

How so very confusing........ And I still can't find a dealer for BDS or Battery Bud in the UK!

 

Thanks a lot for the help everyone! All of the information so far has been very very useful

[Jon Gilbert]

I used a 12V regulated output from a Hawk Woods NP1 adaptor for years with my HDP2, use a right angled plug into the Tascam and you'll be as happy as I was. I still use the same type of Hawk Woods adaptor now, I think they're about as good as it gets. Some (Audioroot) have more features, but Hawk Woods have, in my 20 years doing this, been 100% reliable. I'm trying to remember if I ever used an unregulated supply, I think I did, but most of my use was with the regulated unit.

 

BDS and Battery Bud are poorly represented here due to Hawk Woods strength.

 

As already said, Swit are very good batteries at a great price. Wendys in Manchester seem to have the best prices, and while we're in the North, Stuart Torrance can make any cables you'll need for the powering setup.

 

LJRG and Lancashire Soundie, you should both introduce yourself in the Who I am thread, it's nice to know who you're talking to

[Lancashire soundie]

ljrg, for reference I have a HD-P2 in a cupboard and used it a few times before I bought my Nomad.  The unit I have runs just fine off the 16V (max) my NP1 provided.

[justanross]

I just switched my bags to Audioroot. Love it! Worth every penny.

[ljrg]

Thanks Jon, that post was great and had me pretty much decided, but I'm confused about one thing: how do you monitor battery life with this set up? There doesn't seem to be a place to have an LED voltmeter for example as everything coming out of the Hawkwoods cup will read 12v.. Is that right?

 

If I can can get a reading of battery voltage then it's definite my set up will be: SWIT NP-1 to HW NPU-SQN4s regulated cup/distro with the LA-20 hirose -> jack Hawkwoods cable to the HD-P2 and hirose cable to the 302

 

And yes I'll introduce myself on that thread!

 

And cheers as well Lancashire Soundie, I think if I can I'll try to play it safe though

[Lancashire soundie]

The SWIT batteries have a capacity indicator on them.  To be honest, I don't think I've ever fully drained an NP-1 during a single 10-hour-day's filming, so I wouldn't worry too much.

[Jon Gilbert]

You're not trying hard enough, I go through three a day now

 

Though back in the SQN/HDP2 days I rarely used more than one, and that was with lower capacity batteries.

 

I've never found much comfort in having a voltmeter, I know through experience how long my batteries will last so know when I should be expecting to change them.

[James Arnold]

Worth noting I think that the regulated outputs on Hawkwoods NP1 cups (for Audio Ltd mics) can induce RF issues in some recievers and transmitters.

[Constantin]

If you do get the NPU-SQN4s you can use it upside down to the ways HawkWoods suggests. Then you'll have the end of the battery point up and you can easily read the battery's own meter. I have the HawkWoods DV-SQN4s which also has a flying lead and four switched and regulated outputs. The flying lead is not regulated. If it's the same onyour adaptor you could use it for your voltage meter if you want one.

I seem to remember that Soundkit sells a lot of Remote Audio stuff in the UK. But you can buy this pretty much in any country you like.

[VM]

Worth noting I think that the regulated outputs on Hawkwoods NP1 cups (for Audio Ltd mics) can induce RF issues in some recievers and transmitters.

I use this NP1 cup, with my receivers and transmitters. One Audio LTD 2020 for the boom, 2 MCR42 Wisy (préviously 1 Wisy + 1 SRb), One audio LTD EN2...I haven't notice any RF issues.

[ljrg]

Let's hope there aren't RF issues! I ordered the regulated NPU cup, and sent Hawkwoods an email to confirm whether or not the flying lead is also regulated. Also got the SWIT batteries and charger and hirose to jack lead.

 

Thanks for all the advice, that's got to be the least exciting purchase I've made. The price to excitement for new gear ratio is very saddening hah

[Constantin]

sent Hawkwoods an email to confirm whether or not the flying lead is also regulated.

Please post the reply or your own findings about this here as well. It'll be interesting to many of us

[davidp158]

This is a timely topic for me, as I am looking to get my first BDS for a Tascam DR-680 (that also needs 12VDC) and a Sound Devices 552. I have read conflicting views about the safety of powering the DR-680 with a 14V battery, so the Hawk-Woods solution looks promising.

 

As the 552 has a battery level check option, will this properly read the battery level with the Hawk-Woods "regulated voltage" cup? 

 

The 552 manual says it will operate between 10 - 18VDC. Will performance suffer it the Hawk-Woods cup limits voltage to 12VDC?

 

Sorry for the neophyte questions, but I don't want to damage my gear.

[Soundwil]

As the 552 has a battery level check option, will this properly read the battery level with the Hawk-Woods "regulated voltage" cup? 

 

The 552 manual says it will operate between 10 - 18VDC. Will performance suffer it the Hawk-Woods cup limits voltage to 12VDC?

 

Sorry for the neophyte questions, but I don't want to damage my gear.

 

The Hawk-Woods Regulated cup regulates the 4 hirose outputs to 12v but the 'flying' lead remains unregulated (I can confirm that).

Your 552 connected to the flying lead (unregulated) will give you a fairly (maybe very) accurate reading of voltage of the battery, however connecting the 552 to one of the hirose sockets on the cup will only show you 12v as you would expect. 

There is (as I understand) a little energy loss when power supplies are regulated (if that's what you mean by '... performance suffer ...') but this in my opinion negligible. 

So connect the 552 to the flying lead and the Tascam to one of the regulated hirose sockets on the body of the NP1 cup and you're good to go. You'll supply 12v to the Tascam and be able to check battery level on the 552.

[Nathaniel Robinson]

This is a timely topic for me, as I am looking to get my first BDS for a Tascam DR-680 (that also needs 12VDC) and a Sound Devices 552. I have read conflicting views about the safety of powering the DR-680 with a 14V battery, so the Hawk-Woods solution looks promising.

 

As the 552 has a battery level check option, will this properly read the battery level with the Hawk-Woods "regulated voltage" cup? 

 

The 552 manual says it will operate between 10 - 18VDC. Will performance suffer it the Hawk-Woods cup limits voltage to 12VDC?

 

Sorry for the neophyte questions, but I don't want to damage my gear.

 

The DR680 is not designed to operate over a range of voltages, it absolutely wants 12V. If it sees high enough voltage you will burn out components on the power supply board (no over volt protection in place). I have seen this happen on 2 units, both being powered by selectable voltage Tekkeon-brand batteries that were erroneously outputting 14v.

 

My regulated Hawkwoods L series distro has unregulated voltage on the flying lead. This is useful as a window into remaining battery capacity, via voltage display or in your case the 552 battery check option. However, if you are powering the 552 from a regulated output, the battery check will be essentially useless.

[ljrg]

Yeah davidp158, you'll be perfect using the same method I've gone for. Soundwill's confirmation that the flying lead is unregulated on the otherwise regulated NPU-SQN4s cup/distro was also confirmed by Hawkwoods today. So that's pretty awesome; will power my 302 with that lead and use the battery indicator on that... plus I have the choice in the future to use that lead for a voltmeter if I wish.