Sonosax SX-R4+

[RadoStefanov]

It take the place of the RJ45 option. Easy to install

Jax, I am interested in AES input only version. Is it possible to make one? Let me know.

[Jeremiah Sheets]

Really like the new output options.
Will this be an option to purchase built into a new unit at the current price, or will it be an additional charge to get a new system with this option?

[r.paterson]

In a bag situation using to mix to a camera will you only ever be able to use 4x faders or at some point will there be a rotary fader module like a cl8 etc..thanks..Richard

[Neil Mc]

In a bag situation using to mix to a camera will you only ever be able to use 4x faders or at some point will there be a rotary fader module like a cl8 etc..thanks..Richard

RIchard, the SX-AD8 which is a modular attachment to this, is what you're describing I think. Add's 8 mic pre's and faders. 

 

 

[JAX]

to Rado:

Jax, I am interested in AES input only version. Is it possible to make one? Let me know.

Sorry, I dont anderstand... No mic inputs?

[RadoStefanov]

to Rado:

Jax, I am interested in AES input only version. Is it possible to make one? Let me know.

Sorry, I dont anderstand... No mic inputs?

Not at all. I use AES42 microphones. So the maximum amount of AES3 plus the 2 AES42 inputs is sufficient for me.

Edited November 17, 2015 by RadoStefanov

[JAX]

Optional outputs are added to the actuals outputs, with differents routings. Not defined now. Please, give us some times to work on the soft.

The SX-R4+ is not only a recorder, it is the center of the system.

For now, my favorite is SONOSAX SX-ST8D coupled with the SX-R4+ ! It was a old dream to have a small box to store sounds, at the outputs of the mixer.

On a cart, the SX-R4+ can be use as the main recorder, easy to take out and go away for ambiances sounds.

I'm a bit astonish, in this forum, no one speak about sounds.

Also, it seems sound engineers run after tracks numbers, fill up tracks, and dont made any fine mix and tone adjustings...

Before multi tracks, sounds was made in stereo, and also in mono...

I believe now, everything is made in post prod?...?

[RadoStefanov]

For now, my favorite is SONOSAX SX-ST8D coupled with the SX-R4+ ! It was a old dream to have a small box to store sounds, at the outputs of the mixer.

 

Jax,

Another idea is making the SX-AD8 but instead of having mic preamps , just knob control interface like your linear fader.

[Jeff Wexler]

I'm a bit astonish, in this forum, no one speak about sounds.

Also, it seems sound engineers run after tracks numbers, fill up tracks, and dont made any fine mix and tone adjustings...

Before multi tracks, sounds was made in stereo, and also in mono...

I believe now, everything is made in post prod?...?

I agree, it is a little astonishing the lack of talk about SOUND. There have even been questions asked here by young, new production sound mixers, "do you still do any sort of mix or is it just all isos?". The art of listening has gone away, the art of production sound mixing seems also to be on the way out. An explanation specifically why there is little talk about sound in regards to Sonosax recorder, this is partially because Sonosax already has a long standing reputation for good sounding preamps. Unfortunately, few are concerned about the mic prehs in the recorder because almost everyone has gone wireless for most all of their microphones --- thus, the mic preamp is in the transmitter and going line into the recorder makes the mic preamps somewhat irrelevant.

[Richard Thomas]

Optional outputs are added to the actuals outputs, with differents routings. Not defined now. Please, give us some times to work on the soft.

The SX-R4+ is not only a recorder, it is the center of the system.

For now, my favorite is SONOSAX SX-ST8D coupled with the SX-R4+ ! It was a old dream to have a small box to store sounds, at the outputs of the mixer.

On a cart, the SX-R4+ can be use as the main recorder, easy to take out and go away for ambiances sounds.

I'm a bit astonish, in this forum, no one speak about sounds.

Also, it seems sound engineers run after tracks numbers, fill up tracks, and dont made any fine mix and tone adjustings...

Before multi tracks, sounds was made in stereo, and also in mono...

I believe now, everything is made in post prod?...?

I really appreciate the extra quality in the mic amps and ADC, however it's often the way (down to the way things are shot) that we have to use multiple radio mics now (and my receivers have a lower noise floor using AES3 out).  It's quite difficult to talk about the sounds of different piece of equipment in a qualitative way, I can only really offer an opinion.  I also have a colleague who's interested in the recorder and we're due to hook mine up to an SX-ST8D soon and see how that works out.

I think another reason is that our gear choices are made can also be down to our clients demands, wanting to hear X routed to X for example, which is where the additional output board could be really useful for us.  Sometimes this is what we'll be judged on, rather than our rushes  

I find in a lot of broadcast factual/entertainment work I do they'll want to use the mix on camera and keep ISO tracks on the recorder as a backup in case I miss a queue or something unexpected happens.  I've managed to use the AES output on a number of jobs now and that works well, however there are a number of cameras which don't have this option where I've used the SX-M32 instead when cabled or used wireless from the SX-R4+ unbalanced outs.  The balanced out on the SX-R4+ will be really useful for this. At the moment, I think the post fade ISO will suffice for some of this work, but I'd feel safer with pre-fade.  

A useful function for me would be faster access to L/R mix routing for channels (possibly on channel setup screens as L/C/R buttons?).  There's a couple of multi camera shows I do where we effectively send ISOs of 2 people to camera (on radio mics) on the L and R channels and have to quickly change routings.

For scripted work post production mainly want clean ISO tracks of everything and as the production sound mixer can anticipate queues, the mix is usually 'harder', leaving less microphones open.  Usually this might be done with a larger mixer (such as the SX-ST) and the gain on the ISOs will be fixed (unless there's a problem).  I'd also imagine production sound mixers to want to take the SX-R4+ away from the cart for scenes in more remote locations (but maybe with less tracks) and still create a mix on the R4+ on its own
 

[r.paterson]

Jax,

Another idea is making the SX-AD8 but instead of having mic preamps , just knob control interface like your linear fader.

like rado if using in a bag rather than the sx-ad8 if a control face with rotary pots to give the option of mixing 8 channels in a bag down to a stereo or split mono mix, I wouldn't need an extra 8x channels on the sx-ad8 just the ability to mix the inputs 5/6 and aes inputs as well as inputs 1-4.. Wonder if not made by sonosax they would let a 3rd party kortwich  for example make a control face 4 extra pots would be enough for me..just a thought ..thanks..Richard

[Richard Thomas]

Jax,

Another idea is making the SX-AD8 but instead of having mic preamps , just knob control interface like your linear fader.

+1

[Ramsay]

I agree with both Jacques and Jeff. I bought my first Sonosax in 1989. I had come from Post Production and knew the sound quality of Neve and Neumann. I still do a mono mix and somewhere around 97% of my MONO mix is what ends up on the dubbing stage for final finess'. I use my current ST8D eq all day long with every mic both lav and boom. Don't dispare Mr. Sax. We are all trying to get the best quality of tracks possible and your products have made this possible in a rapidly changing recording environment.

Je suis d'accord à la fois avec Jacques et Jeff . Je l'ai acheté mon premier Sonosax en 1989. Je venais de post-production et je savais que la qualité sonore de Neve et Neumann . Je fais toujours un mélange de mono et quelque part autour de 97 % de mon MONO MIX est ce qui finit sur la scène de doublage pour la finesse finale ». Je utiliser mon eq ST8D courant tout au long de la journée avec tous les micro lav fois et la bôme . Ne pas dispare Mr. Sax . Nous essayons tous d'obtenir la meilleure qualité de pistes possibles tous les jours et de vos produits avons rendu cela possible dans un environnement d'enregistrement en évolution rapide.

[Erkal Taskin]

Yes unfortunately 1 mic pre is all I need %95 of the time and max 2 for either 2 booms or a stereo recording. So lots of mic pre's are pointless for me however I do need 7-8 line inputs quite often and I definitely do need to mix. Maybe the AD8 can be custom built or have different variations depending on individual needs like a line/AES in only AD8 and add a slate mic as well? It would make it the ultimate setup.

[dfisk]

Sound quality is much less of an issue than it was even 10 years ago. Even the low cost recorders sound pretty decent. People know what they are going to get from their gear, especially from already known manufacturers. 

In terms of multi-track and post, it all depends on workflows and what the shows demand. You don't see single camera as much. Mutli-camera dominates, and thus multi-track has become a thing that is needed because of this. Back when I was cutting dialogue I'd still get a mix track as well as isos. I preferred the mix track if it was usable, but this was reality TV, so I was dipping into the isos a lot. 

A/D converters are as important, if not more important than the actual mic-pre's these days. I'd rather see money spent on good A/D converters and only have one, maybe two mic pres in a production sound recorder. Everything else can be line level in. That is, of course, unless you can get the cost of manufacturing down, like Yamaha has done with the O1V, to the point where the whole board is reasonably good quality for the work done on production and it's so cheap it can be replaced every year. 

[RadoStefanov]

Yes unfortunately 1 mic pre is all I need %95 of the time and max 2 for either 2 booms or a stereo recording. So lots of mic pre's are pointless for me however I do need 7-8 line inputs quite often and I definitely do need to mix. Maybe the AD8 can be custom built or have different variations depending on individual needs like a line/AES in only AD8 and add a slate mic as well? It would make it the ultimate setup.

The 2 AES42s will accommodate my need for 2 booms.

I really appreciate the extra quality in the mic amps and ADC, however it's often the way (down to the way things are shot) that we have to use multiple radio mics now (and my receivers have a lower noise floor using AES3 out).  It's quite difficult to talk about the sounds of different piece of equipment in a qualitative way, I can only really offer an opinion.  I also have a colleague who's interested in the recorder and we're due to hook mine up to an SX-ST8D soon and see how that works out.
I think another reason is that our gear choices are made can also be down to our clients demands, wanting to hear X routed to X for example, which is where the additional output board could be really useful for us.  Sometimes this is what we'll be judged on, rather than our rushes  

I find in a lot of broadcast factual/entertainment work I do they'll want to use the mix on camera and keep ISO tracks on the recorder as a backup in case I miss a queue or something unexpected happens.  I've managed to use the AES output on a number of jobs now and that works well, however there are a number of cameras which don't have this option where I've used the SX-M32 instead when cabled or used wireless from the SX-R4+ unbalanced outs.  The balanced out on the SX-R4+ will be really useful for this. At the moment, I think the post fade ISO will suffice for some of this work, but I'd feel safer with pre-fade.  

A useful function for me would be faster access to L/R mix routing for channels (possibly on channel setup screens as L/C/R buttons?).  There's a couple of multi camera shows I do where we effectively send ISOs of 2 people to camera (on radio mics) on the L and R channels and have to quickly change routings.

For scripted work post production mainly want clean ISO tracks of everything and as the production sound mixer can anticipate queues, the mix is usually 'harder', leaving less microphones open.  Usually this might be done with a larger mixer (such as the SX-ST) and the gain on the ISOs will be fixed (unless there's a problem).  I'd also imagine production sound mixers to want to take the SX-R4+ away from the cart for scenes in more remote locations (but maybe with less tracks) and still create a mix on the R4+ on its own
 

99.9% of my work in the US the recorder isos are used in the final cut. Occasional stereo to camera eng but even then on documentaries people know to use the recorder sound. 

[VASI]

AD8 with mic preamps is nice addition. Surround recording ambiences is often used from post production houses. Nice update firmware

I would like to ask Mr. Sax what is the:

• Added file size selection: fow now limited to 4GB (until WAV64 is implemented)

[soundtrane]

to write files larger than 4GB... 

[Richard Thomas]

AD8 with mic preamps is nice addition. Surround recording ambiences is often used from post production houses. Nice update firmware

I would like to ask Mr. Sax what is the:

• Added file size selection: fow now limited to 4GB (until WAV64 is implemented)

That's something I found out.  In v1.2 it would quite happily write .wav files over 4GB (I had a 10GB multitrack recording of an event), which don't conform to the .wav standard and would appear in both a number of editing and DAW software programs as a much shorter file so a seamless split has been added

[VASI]

Thanks (:

[Richard Thomas]

AD8 with mic preamps is nice addition. Surround recording ambiences is often used from post production houses. Nice update firmware

Something I think the AD8+ (with preamps) would be really useful for is as a remote/stage box. Either for music recording or as an 'on set' box. I don't believe there's anything available which is dc powered, of that size or quality. Should be fully remote controllable over the cable or wifi

[James Bull]

Yes, this would be great as a stagebox for my classical music work. I believe that you can DC power the Merging Horus/Hapi, but there is nothing of this size available.  What would be really nice Richard, is if the AD8+ could be remotely powered, using that new 10pin Neutrik connector that you flagged up.  

Do we know yet what protocol sonosax are using for this? Dante/Ravenna perhaps? This would also open the possibility of using them without the SX-R4+ with a computer as an interface too. I think they would sell loads of those if the price is right. 

[Richard Thomas]

Yes, this would be great as a stagebox for my classical music work. I believe that you can DC power the Merging Horus/Hapi, but there is nothing of this size available.  What would be really nice Richard, is if the AD8+ could be remotely powered, using that new 10pin Neutrik connector that you flagged up.  

That's something I was thinking of, although you wouldn't have enough pins for the data connection (if required) 

Do we know yet what protocol sonosax are using for this? Dante/Ravenna perhaps? This would also open the possibility of using them without the SX-R4+ with a computer as an interface too. I think they would sell loads of those if the price is right. 

Not sure what's going on with this at the moment, when I asked at the factory earlier in the year Vincent said they were looking to see if one protocol won out over the others, or alternatively having the hardware to interface 2 of them and a switch (I imagine that would be expensive as additional hardware and licensing would be involved).

I think (at least for now) the 5 pin option will do me on the R4+  I've got a couple of DC powered ADC/DACs to convert to analogue if need be

[James Bull]

From what I can gather, this is exactly the purpose of this connector. 8 pins for Ethernet data (Ravenna, Dante, AVB etc) plus 2 big pins for DC power up to 50v. 

Ravenna and Dante can pass control data over the same ip network as the audio. 

[johnpaul215]

That's a big deal. It seems like a thing that Zaxcom could also make happen, but for now it can be a little frustrating to stop what I'm doing in the menu system to go into record mode.

That's doable via the transport controls on the FP8 and Oasis.

Yes unfortunately 1 mic pre is all I need %95 of the time and max 2 for either 2 booms or a stereo recording. So lots of mic pre's are pointless for me however I do need 7-8 line inputs quite often and I definitely do need to mix. Maybe the AD8 can be custom built or have different variations depending on individual needs like a line/AES in only AD8 and add a slate mic as well? It would make it the ultimate setup.

Same here, for bag work.

When I'm on a cart, everything is wireless.... so line or AES inputs.