Choosing microphones to rent

[takev]

Hello everyone,

In a couple of weeks I am planning with a couple of friends to record a feature length film. They asked me to capture the audio.

We have already selected the Sony PMW-EX1 as the camera to record on, which seems according to specs the camera to make pictures with, I also noticed from the specs and this forum that the audio part is not the worst you've heard. The camera has two inputs, line/microphone(+fantom).

Controlling Boom Recorder while holding a boom doesn't seem very appealing to me, so I though that directly recording to this camera would be sufficient, do people here think this is stupid? Would I need to carry a mixer, or would connecting the microphones straight to the camera be good enough?

I only had one experience holding a boom and a mixer connected to the camera, the soundmixer had some other job to do, so I had borrowed the equipment. This was only for one day. I thought the mixer bag was quite heavy, I rather have something a bit lighter around my neck.

Then of course I need to know what kind of microphones I need, I have never selected microphones before. Could anyone suggest what I need for the following conditions:

- I need a boom microphone for indoor (only 2 scenes are outdoor) on-location (hospital like building) dialogue.

- I need a microphone to record sound effects like knocking on doors and lighting a match and such, recording the interior of a driving car (maybe done "wild" using the camera)

- I need a microphone to record the room in sync, like for recording random conversations in a large room/cafeteria.

- I may need a clip-on radio microphone, for a third member of a dialogue.

Is it normal to record foley like sound effects on the set?

Do I need to have anything more to bring?

[John E. Walker]

Recruit a boom operator.  If you don't know one, recruit someone to mix while you boom op.  The placement of the mike is the most important aspect of production sound.  Don't trust the camera to record your precious audio.  Absolutely use a mixer; the input pre-amps and the circuitry inside will do wonders for your signal, even if you're not actually mixing any channels together.  It's not abnormal to grab sound effects on set.  Note: the art of Foley is actually making sounds while watching a picture (usually in post), like actors lip-syncing themselves during ADR.  As for microphones, there are many others here on this forum who know better than I.  I've only had the pleasure to use old reliable Sennheiser MKH416, 50 and 816 as true condenser mikes, and many times with the electret condenser ME66.  I hear great things about Schoeps and Neumann.  It seems that cardioids are favored to hypercardioids for small, reverberant rooms.  Car interiors are tricky because there's very little room, but I've had success with planting a mike in the glove box or under a visor.  Last week I sat in the back seat during a couple of dirty singles (OTS CU) and pistol gripped a 416 right at the top of the side frameline, aimed at the space just in front of the actor's mouth.  It sounded just like an overhead boom just above the hairline.  Short shotguns always sound better than lavs to me, so I encourage using a second boom if possible--not to mention the trouble with getting clean RF transmission/reception and that the inputs on the transmitters won't be as good as those on the mixing console.  A good dynamic mike can be great for recording effects, provided you can put the mike up close and don't want the reach (sensitivity) of a condenser.  Just some thoughts. 

[Jeff Wexler]

I agree with most everything John E. Walker says. It also sounds like you were planning on doing this feature film as a one man band --- bad idea. You should get the best boom operator you can and then mix yourself (using boom recorder and whatever outboard mixing/interface you want). Or, if you feel that you could boom and mix (quite common on many projects although rare for anything calling itself a feature film --- this is almost always at least 2 people) but I would still strongly suggest that you have a primary recorder that is NOT the camera. You should still record to the camera but not have to rely on it as the only recording format. At the very least, there are lots of things that you will need to record that you don't want to ask the camera people to roll the camera so that you can record some wild lines or effects. Also, although the camera can fairly reliably record audio it is a very good idea to have a backup to this recording on a separate system.

It is true that it would not be feasible to mix and boom and run Boomrecorder all by yourself. This can only be solved by adding a person to your sound crew (so that it is actually a crew, not just you on your own).

-  Jeff Wexler

[takev]

Hi,

Thank you for the responses so far, I look forward to more of them.

I may try and get a second sound person, but although it is a feature film, it is done on no budget. We are just a couple of friends. It is extremely difficult to get funding for a feature film here in the Netherlands, pretty much to only chance you have is for a short 15 minute film.

Luckily I do have a full Boom Recorder setup that i can use for recording, so I guess I will go in that direction. Also a good idea for a second boom instead of wireless, we only need to do that for short scenes, I guess I could even ask someone else on the crew to hold the second boom for a while.

One of the locations will be a church, which I guess will be quite reverberant.

I could definitely rent one of the suggested microphones, but where we get the camera is a inexpensive rental house that also has the following two microphones, is any of those two good in my situation, or should I just find a sennheiser mkh416:

- Sennheiser K6/ME66

- Sanken CS-1

As for a microphone for recording the atmosphere of a dining hall with lots of people eating, could I use something like a second hand sennheiser MD21-U reporters microphone that I have at home? Or can I use that for recording sound effects? Any specific suggestions for microphones for those two things would be welcome.

Cheers,

    Take

[John E. Walker]

I'd try out the Sanken CS-1.  Ask if you can have a listen to both at the rental house.  Your ears are a better judge than the tech specs that I read.  I'm also always eager to try new stuff, and the ME66 with K6 power module is the microphone we learned on in film school.  It works well up close, but it's an electret condenser.  You'll likely get a quieter signal from the CS-1.

[Noah Timan]

Hi Take,

If it's a no budget production where you are not going to be able to afford to do things the proper way (separate recorder, syncing, proper boom operator, and so forth) and you and the production are accepting and not denying the compromises inherent in this way of working, and are able to live with the results, here's what I recommend:

You definitely need a mixer, regardless.  DON'T just plug the microphone(s) directly into the camera.  You will need to control attenuation, level, and in the case of multiple microphones, mix.  This is a critical part of the process.  The camera will not allow you to do this.  This should not be a major cost problem.

As others have said, try to push for and find a boom operator.  It's very difficult and often downright impossible to do a good job when you're trying to do two things at once.  Boom operation is a very particular, difficult, and critical set of skills learned by years of practice.  You may not get that if there is absolutely no money, but get as close as you possibly can.  It is the single thing (provided some competence on the mixer end) that will improve your sound tenfold.  Without a good boom operator (and if you never did it before, you probably aren't him) you're generally dead in the water.

As far as microphones go, if you can only have one (and if you don't have a lot of experience with microphones) I'd wholeheartedly recommend the Sennheiser MKH-416.  There are plenty of improvements that can be made on the 416 if you can afford an army of microphones and have a good idea of how to use which ones where.  But if you don't have the experience and knowhow of which situations require which, and/or the budget for much, the 416 has the most versatility of just about any microphone I can think of.  It works well indoors and outdoors, is resistant to humidity, damage, and RF problems, sounds great (if employed properly) and covers as many bases as can be covered with just one tool.  It has done so to great success for many years in our field.  Again, if you have the knowledge and experience to reach for real finesse, and can know when to use this or that, you could get something better with other microphones.  But if you're coming into the sound world with your umbilical cord freshly cut, that's what I would reach for.

If you can't find that, the next best choices are the Neumann KMR-81i or the Sanken CSS-3.  Don't use the Sennheiser K6 or ME-whatever.

See if you can get at least a pair of wireless mics and lavs to use.  You will want the boom microphone to dictate most of the scenes but there will inevitably be a few scenarios where you are forced to use lavaliers and there will be no way to do things with the boom other than completely eliminating shots that the director has envisioned.  In the Netherlands I believe the most obvious choice is Audio Limited, which is a wonderfully made wireless system depending on how current the model -- see if you can get your hands on at least a pair, preferably coupled with Sanken COS-11 lavs.

Finally, if you're going to record on the camera, see if you can get ahold of the camera and your sound rig before shooting and spend as much time as you can going through trial and error and learning the ins and outs of that particular recording system and its pitfalls and problems.  It'll be far easier to deal with those issues in the calm of your living room than in the hectic place that set can be, and help you significantly to go to set already knowing how to overcome problems.  It's not that I recommend recording on camera -- but if your limitations insist that this is what you will be doing regardless of what you want, at least learn to know how to deal with it as best you can.

I love that you are doing this -- I always think it's great when manufacturers/programmers are able to come into our world and see what the real world implications of their products are and how they are used.  Kudos to you!

[RPSharman]

Take,

I always tell people if you can only have one mic, get the MKH416.  You can play it loose in close-ups, where a shotgun is not required, to keep the sound natural, and it is very durable and reliable.  If you can have two mics, a good idea especially if you or your boom operator lack a great deal of experience, then I would recommend the schoeps CMC/MK41 setup.  It's very forgiving for off-axis and/or a poorly placed mic.

And you should use a mixer.  The SD302 is a real champion and is very light.  It's limiters will help compensate for lack of experience in the field, and you are far better off using line inputs on the camera rather than relying on the camera's mic pres.

Just remember.  Try to concentrate on the background noise as much as the dialog.  In situations like yours, controlling the background noise might not always be possible, so the trick is to keep it consistent to assist in editing.

Good luck, and I hope you and your friends have a great time making the movie.

Robert

(I love boom recorder!!)

[takev]

Hello Noah and Robert,

To answer your question, I do have a complete Boom Recorder setup at home: computer + MOTU 828Mk2 + OctPre (has a limiter on each channel). For sync we have an old-style clapboard.

I have only boomed myself once for a production, and the director was happy with it. I first read quite a bit about booming before I started that job, I even caused the production to halt a few times because my boom was in the picture (following the advice that if your microphone doesn't get into the picture at least 4 times in a day you're not close enough).

Thank you for your luck Robert, now I just need to find me some skills.

Cheers,

    Take

[Marc Wielage]

I may try and get a second sound person, but although it is a feature film, it is done on no budget. We are just a couple of friends.

Talk to a local film school. There's always a young student who'd be willing to contribute their time just to intern and train, particularly for a labor of love like this, done not for profit.

Boom Recorder (and Metacorder) are great products, but to me, they only work when you have a cart-based system and aren't on the run. Unless you have a good wireless system, you may have to resort to a portable recorder you can operate in a shoulder bag, like a DAT machine or something like a Fostex FR-2 or Sound Devices 722T. The alternative is to run a mixer with a cable feeding the camera, but more and more camera ops I deal with clearly prefer wireless set-ups, which are more costly and complex. For no-budget, they'll have to live with a wire, which is about 1/1000th the cost.

I recently posted a long list of "intro to location sound mixing" reference books over on RAMPS, and can email that to you -- if you have time to read some of them. That plus real-world experience will give you an honest perspective on the tough challenges of this job, especially in the micro-budget world.

Oh, and in answer to your suggestion for possible mikes: the Sennheiser 416 short shotgun is a workhorse for big rooms, and I see Tram TR-50s and Sanken COS-11's often for lavaliers, sometimes Sennheiser MKE 2's or Sony 77's for ENG. If it's just a one- or two-day shoot, you might be able to rent a small sound package (boompole, shotgun, cable, 1 wireless lav) for maybe $100-$150 a day. That's a cheaper alternative than trying to buy this stuff, unless you can find a school or friend to loan you the gear.

--Marc

[miker71]

You could also try putting a call for crew out on mandy.com which is pretty global -- back in '06 I worked on a couple of microbudget shorts in the UK. The professional DoP and gaffer came over from Austria for the experience not for the (lack of!) money. So you never know your luck.

On stuff I work on here in the UK (mostly through OTTfilms nowadays) I'll always suggest double-system for anything dialogue heavy. Sometimes I get a boom-op, sometimes not. I've reduced my basic toolkit down to a 702T in a small Kata bag (with scratch wireless audio out to camera if requested), two Oktavas, a 416 and a 816 along with a AT835ST.

If you deeply care about the audio (and this may be dependent upon the final format of your film) then I definitely would not record to camera as primary audio. I did this for a feature-length "mockumentary" a few years ago using a Canon XL1 with a ME66 sat on top (not even a boom-op!!). Although I consider the audio is "ok" (you can clearly hear what actors are saying) and the Canon's AGC acted more intelligently than I ever thought it could, if I could improve one area it would be the production sound.

Good luck with your movie no matter how you decide to record it.

[Philip Perkins]

I'm going to go a little against the grain here and say that if the film is relatively simple in its setups and dialog that you can do it by yourself if you are willing to pay attention and the director is willing to keep things simple.  Many many of us do little dramas as a one-man-band all the time, including indie features. The main reason for working this way, in my case, was that I could not find someone to boom for me that I trusted, and there was a desire to keep the size of the crew to a minimum, either due to location or talent distraction issues.  In many of these films the booming wasn't that hard, but the number of days in a row you have to do it should be taken into consideration--physical endurance is required to make a feature length film over several weeks.  You can record the audio to the EX1, it's ok as video camera audio goes, but if you COULD double record onto an audio-only machine (SD 702T, Tascam HDP2 are common low-price good quality recorders) the end result will sound much better.  I'd only get your Boom Recorder rig out if you can get good help on the pole, and even then you'll have to figure out how to make the gear you mention do such movie-sound ancillary tasks as have good, locked TC and sample rate, monitoring and talk back for your boom op and a slate mic for you.  You know very well that many productions have successfully used your software, but there is a considerable hardware component involved in making it "set-ready". 

Mic wise you won't go wrong with a 416 or MKH 60.  The CS1 is fine, but not as directional-feeling.  The films I did alone were mostly "one-man, one-mic" affairs, so try to get the best boom mic you can since it will record most of the film.

To record into the camera, you DEFINITELY need a portable mixer of some type.  The low-price fave right now is the SD302, although you could get away with an old Shure FP33 if that was all that was available.

Philip Perkins