shooting on a beach

[greg sextro]

hey gang.

i have an upcoming feature that is spending a little over 2 weeks on the beach.  i've actually never been on any shoots on the beach.  considering the issue of the ocean roar and the salt air, does anyone have any good advice?  any good tips and tricks or things to look out for?  should i be worried about the salt air with any gear?  shoot is fully insured, so if something goes in the water by accident, i'm covered.

i will be laving actors whenever i can (mainly cos-11s), shotgun wise i have either a cs-3e or a neumann kmr 82 in my kit (i doubt my schoeps will make it out of the case).  there are 3 male actors and one female actor that i'm guessing (depending on the shot and wardrobe) i might have to mainly hide a lav in her hair...any votes for the easiest mic to hide in such a manner?  i'm starting some tests with hair plants at the moment, any mics to test other than cos-11s?

i will be rolling to 1 or 2 744ts, 442 to mix wires.  gear will be located in a petrol bag. 

any thoughts, ideas, or horror stories are greatly appreciated.

kudos,

-greg-

[Eric Toline]

hey gang.

i have an upcoming feature that is spending a little over 2 weeks on the beach.  i've actually never been on any shoots on the beach.  considering the issue of the ocean roar and the salt air, does anyone have any good advice?  any good tips and tricks or things to look out for?  should i be worried about the salt air with any gear?  shoot is fully insured, so if something goes in the water by accident, i'm covered.

i will be laving actors whenever i can (mainly cos-11s), shotgun wise i have either a cs-3e or a neumann kmr 82 in my kit (i doubt my schoeps will make it out of the case).  there are 3 male actors and one female actor that i'm guessing (depending on the shot and wardrobe) i might have to mainly hide a lav in her hair...any votes for the easiest mic to hide in such a manner?  i'm starting some tests with hair plants at the moment, any mics to test other than cos-11s?

i will be rolling to 1 or 2 744ts, 442 to mix wires.  gear will be located in a petrol bag. 

any thoughts, ideas, or horror stories are greatly appreciated.

kudos,

-greg-

The Countryman B6 is the goto mic for hairplants. It's basically water proof and being so small it's easier to hide in the hair, which to a degree also acts as a windscreen. Work with the makeup/hair stylist person to get the cable as close to the scalp as possible. As you know get the front of the capsule as close to the front of the hair as possible. The best part is that when placed on the top of the head it sounds more like a boom mic than a lav.

Eric

[Guest jimg]

The Countryman B6 is the goto mic for hairplants. It's basically water proof and being so small it's easier to hide in the hair, which to a degree also acts as a windscreen. Work with the makeup/hair stylist person to get the cable as close to the scalp as possible. As you know get the front of the capsule as close to the front of the hair as possible. The best part is that when placed on the top of the head it sounds more like a boom mic than a lav.

Eric

Plus it comes in some colors that make hiding this way a little easier.

Best regards,

Jim

[David Settlemoir]

How do you keep the makeup folks from spraying hair spray on the hair mic or pulling it out accidentally with a brush/comb?

David

[Guest jimg]

How do you keep the makeup folks from spraying hair spray on the hair mic or pulling it out accidentally with a brush/comb?

David

The hair stylist is an integral part of the plan - can't do it without his/her help, and they will therefore be aware of the comb and hairspray issues.

Best,

JG

[John E. Walker]

I did two days at the beach back in January.  I was doing the one-man band thing with a Tascam HD-P2 in a Port-A-Brace, two Sennheiser G2 wireless kits, and an 816.  You're right about the ocean roar.  At El Matador State Beach in Malibu, it was also windy and really cold (I wore gloves and a hood) until the marine layer overhead dried up and the sun came out.  My car stereo couldn't get the radio stations as I neared the location.  There was hardly any intermodulation interference and the wireless kits had a huge range out there.  Actors walked maybe 200 yards away and I could still hear them clean in the extreme wide shot, unless they walked behind a rock.  The lavs sounded remarkably good, because the level of the voice was much stronger than the level of the ocean.  The 816, pointed straight down or slightly away from the shore, was even better for close-ups. 

I would tell myself to bring a towel or a blanket and a chair for next time.  There was nowhere to set down the gear during downtime.  Sand everywhere!  I also recommend keeping all of your accessories in pouches to keep the dust and sand off.  Stay in shade as much as you can, and take care of your skin.

[greg sextro]

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  I'll probably pick up a B6 next week. 

I will have a rock n roller to set my bag down on, attach boom poles to and generally keep things out of the sand.  Also pelican cases for everything, though I will look into also placing these items in bags too.  I also plan on bringing a few blankets and tarps.

Can anyone tell me what to do if (for example) a wireless transmitter falls into the water?  Is it just flat out screwed?  Should I try to douse it with clean water and then let it dry out? 

-Greg-

[ProSound]

See this Lectro FAQ regarding water

http://www.lectrosonics.com/faq/faq1byref.php?id=23

You may consider renting MM400 tx, which are water proof

[David Waelder]

Can anyone tell me what to do if (for example) a wireless transmitter falls into the water?  Is it just flat out screwed?

In short, yes.

Salt water (and I'm assuming that you are working a saltwater beach, not a beach on one of the Great Lakes) is intensely corrosive. The risk with a flush in fresh water and a clean out is that everything will work fine for six months, even a year, and then the corrosion will blossom. That is why you need to have an explicitly clear understanding with the producers that anything dropped in salt water is to be replaced even if it appears to be OK.

Hedging this position slightly, you may be OK with a momentary immersion of a water resistant transmitter like one of the Lectrosonics SM series. If you are very confident that no water leaked into the circuit, you could simply wash off the transmitter and you ought to be OK. Obviously the MM400C would also be OK, even with prolonged immersion, as that is intended for that application.

But with gear that is not water tight you ought to take the position that anything immersed is ruined. (Most gear can survive the occasional splash)

David Waelder

[Noah Timan]

Can anyone tell me what to do if (for example) a wireless transmitter falls into the water?  Is it just flat out screwed?  Should I try to douse it with clean water and then let it dry out? 

Yes.  Open up the transmitter, get the salt water off as quickly and thoroughly as possible before anything corrodes with fresh water, and you might have a chance to save it.

Be careful with how you deal with production for these kinds of repairs -- some corrosion really takes a long time to set in and what seems to be working okay now will not be in a few months.  That's why it's better to err on the side of excess with the fresh water when trying to get rid of the salt water.

A good idea, if you can, is the Lectro MM400 transmitters, designed for this purpose.

http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/400/mm400c.htm

Also make sure your bag really seals up well.  Sand is not gear's friend.

Others seem to have covered the bases -- B6 and its protective in the hair to combat hairspray, 816 and CS-3e for boom mics.  I'd get a comfortable harness (Versaflex, etc) and forget about the rock and roller.  It doesn't do much rolling in the sand and it's awfully heavy to lug around.  Grab an applebox from the grips instead and keep it as light and simple as you can.  As others have mentioned, range can often be good on the beach so if you can park back at the edge (without having to drag all the gear into the dunes and sand) and do everything wirelessly, you'll probably have a much better day.

If you want to get really tricked out, there are always those dunebuggy wheels for a magliner from Nalpak.

http://www.nalpak.com/retail/prodvariants.asp?P=MAG%2DQUAD11

[Guest jimg]

David and Noah both give great advice. In addition, if a transmitter gets wet get the batteries out as soon as you can. Be sure to have the fresh water on hand. 16 OZ. bottles from  craft service won't cut it. I'll advise bringing a pop-up, for sun protection, and a couple of 1 gallon bottles of water to hold it down which can then be used to flush gear that gets dunked.

A small folding camping table, the kind with a roll-up metal slat top, is a great thing to have on the beach as well. It's small and light and will give you a place well above the sand to set things down.

Best regards,

Jim

[RPSharman]

The beach is a terrible work environment for EVERYONE in every department.  Be patient, take your time, and hope for the best.  The good news is that most producers expect poor sound at the beach, so when you concentrate hard and make good choices and deliver good tracks, you are a rock star!

Good luck, don't try to time the waves, be consistent with your choices, and try to remember what lines you are missing so you can concentrate on those for subsequent takes or get them wild if need be.  If you get them wild, be sure to give perspective options to match any different sizes.  While these are good rules to follow in general, it is more critical in very noisy environments.

As for water - ditto what the others have said.  Salt water is death to electronics...eventually if not immediately.  A quick flush with lots of fresh water and good drying time might keep it working, but it should no longer be considered reliable.

Robert

[FSBELLA]

Greg,

when using the boom on a windy day out there. try putting the foam windscreen on the mic inside the zep/wj.

and there is a Hi-wind cover as well for the zeps. 

try to rent a MM400 w/B6.

good luck.

[Eric Burge]

You could always requisition a value-size box of condoms and/or surgical gloves with your expendables, red Trojans preferred. No lube. No endcap receptacle. It of course requires bit more effort to swap out batteries on a gloved Tx, but then it's a lot cheaper than replacement if one goes under. I've had a good number of UMxxx swim in both fresh and salt water with no issues at all. Tip: Trojans are cheap. Double up. Seal well with quality electrical tape across the latex/cable junction.

EB

[Joe Finlan]

I've used Cos-11's successfully as hair plants and prefer the sound of the mic. Use toupee clips to hold them in place. B6's haved worked well also on those with less hair to hide the mic in.

As to the transmitters and salt water - flush them with fresh water Immediately. Add a small plastic pail (that you can put them into and cover them with water) to your kit for the shoot. Keep them submerged long enough for the salt to disolve in the fresh water. Send them back to the manufacturer for a good going over and they should continue to serve you well for years to come.

[David Waelder]

You could always requisition a value-size box of condoms and/or surgical gloves with your expendables, red Trojans preferred.

LSC actually sells condoms manufactured for the purpose of protecting electronic equipment (as distinguished from the other kind). They're not lubricated and they may be a bit larger.

David Waelder

[greg sextro]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.  I'll be checking into getting mm400s.  Hopefully my rental house has them.

I have made sure to stipulate with production that if any piece of gear goes in the water, it will be considered broken (I'm still going to try to flush it out and will be prepared to do so)

All this info has given me a much better idea about how to best be prepared.  I've got some serious shopping to do.  I think my boom op is going to look at me and wonder why in the world I packed a bucket, condoms and rubber gloves.  

Thanks Joe for the mention of toupee clips - I was wondering what might be used to attach hair mounted lavs besides maybe normal hair clips - which i think might tend to fall out.

Best Regards,

-Greg-

[Eric Toline]

Thanks everyone for the great advice.  I'll be checking into getting mm400s.  Hopefully my rental house has them.

I have made sure to stipulate with production that if any piece of gear goes in the water, it will be considered broken (I'm still going to try to flush it out and will be prepared to do so)

All this info has given me a much better idea about how to best be prepared.  I've got some serious shopping to do.  I think my boom op is going to look at me and wonder why in the world I packed a bucket, condoms and rubber gloves.  

Thanks Joe for the mention of toupee clips -

I was wondering what might be used to attach hair mounted lavs besides maybe normal hair clips - which i think might tend to fall out.

Best Regards,

-Greg-

They're called "bobby pins", any beauty supply shop should have them or even your local CVS, Walgreens, etc.

Eric

[Joe Finlan]

They're called "bobby pins", any beauty supply shop should have them or even your local CVS, Walgreens, etc.

Eric

Toupee clips work much better than bobby pins.

[studiomprd]

I often suggest to folks that the best place to get the correct answers to questions if from the equipment maker!  this beach discussion proves my point, as there have been several folks stating that salt-water immersion is a death sentence for electronic equipment, and others suggesting it is not.

I'm certain the service department managers at the manufacturers could provide the best information and suggestions.

[David Waelder]

I often suggest to folks that the best place to get the correct answers to questions if from the equipment maker!  this beach discussion proves my point, as there have been several folks stating that salt-water immersion is a death sentence for electronic equipment, and others suggesting it is not.

Mike, I appreciate your sage advice to consult with the manufacturers for the most dependable information regarding their products. But even the manufacturers will often defer to the experience of end-users in the wild, so to speak.

The problem with salt water immersion is that the eventual outcome may be so far into the future that one cannot with any certainty say, "This piece of gear will be OK." Corrosion that appeared to be cleaned out completely may return at some point well into the future rather like a cancer that returns after the surgeon has cut out all signs of infection. If only one cell escapes the surgeon's knife, the cancer may (or may not) return and if only a tiny residue of corrosive elements remain on a circuit, it may spread.

In this sort of circumstance, I think the experience of users is every bit as valuable (but maybe not more valuable) as the manufacturer's opinion.

David Waelder

[Philip Perkins]

My speech to producers about gear, especially wireless, and water is : fresh-water bath: they pay the repair and rental replacement cost; salt-water (or sewer water etc) bath--they just bought that gear.  No exceptions.  I used to work with a guy who experienced the "delayed-corrosion" syndrome in some gear that had gotten salt-and other nasty-water dunked and then professionally cleaned up.  The gear was never reliable again and was eventually scrapped.

Philip Perkins

[Bob Marts]

The website Bright And Loud, has some info about hiding lavs in hair for theatrical applications

http://www.brightandloud.com/microphone-placement/

The site has other interesting related info.

[greg sextro]

hey bob,

that's a great link!  thanks very much.

-greg-

[Joe Finlan]

Mike, I appreciate your sage advice to consult with the manufacturers for the most dependable information regarding their products. But even the manufacturers will often defer to the experience of end-users in the wild, so to speak.

The problem with salt water immersion is that the eventual outcome may be so far into the future that one cannot with any certainty say, "This piece of gear will be OK." Corrosion that appeared to be cleaned out completely may return at some point well into the future rather like a cancer that returns after the surgeon has cut out all signs of infection. If only one cell escapes the surgeon's knife, the cancer may (or may not) return and if only a tiny residue of corrosive elements remain on a circuit, it may spread.

In this sort of circumstance, I think the experience of users is every bit as valuable (but maybe not more valuable) as the manufacturer's opinion.

David Waelder

Interesting advice, David. I had a pair of Lectro transmitters take a dive into the Atlantic. I immediately flushed them with fresh water and after a trip to the mothership for cleaning they have been working flawlessly. However, I will keep this in mind should they begin to act up or, knock on wood, maybe I've just been lucky and the "cancer" has been cured.