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CF cards as deliverables


Jeff Wexler

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Since I come from The Era Of Tape, for me a new load is a new roll, no matter how short it is.  As a postie I would rather not see a sequence of "Roll 56, Roll 56A" etc, because then I would never know if I really had all the rolls by just counting

Philip Perkins

Okay, I am trying to put this all into practice, to fit the generally stated need for consecutive roll numbers even within a given day. There is one problem I see: let's say that on a Monday I start "sound roll #56" which for me, with the Deva, means making a Folder and naming no. "56". It is then voice identified with first recorded segment, SEG no. 001, as "sound roll no. 56 on September 25, 2008" followed by a reference tone of -20 db (that segment, or take, being named via metadata as REF ID Take 1. So, at the break, what people are proposing here is that I stay in my Folder 56 but record a segment ID that identifies us as now on sound roll #57 and then carry on with the rest of the days work mirrored to a 2nd disk.

My question, then, is for the next day of shooting, Tuesday, I would start out making a new folder and naming that sound roll #58, right? This is because I had "used" #57 already as the 2nd roll on Monday. This would preserve, as Richard suggests, 1 folder per day, but it does mean that my convention of having the folder be named the roll # ... maybe that needs to change.

-  Jeff Wexler

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My question, then, is for the next day of shooting, Tuesday, I would start out making a new folder and naming that sound roll #58, right?

Right.

This would preserve, as Richard suggests, 1 folder per day, but it does mean that my convention of having the folder be named the roll # ... maybe that needs to change.

I'm a ilttle unclear about the business of the folders -- maybe it's something specific to the Deva.  On the Fostex there are internal partitions the size of a DVD-RAM disc -- new roll, new partition, done.

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For me a daily folder = roll number. That is: day one, roll one. And so on...

And therein lies the dilemma...  I always start day one with sound roll #1, but if day one has a film break or two, and I change the roll number, day two will be sound roll #3, or 4, etc.

As for things specific to the Deva: the Deva, like many of the other recorders out there, has done away with partitions, as in disk partitions, in favor of Folders --- and with the Deva these are variable size. The hard drive is one volume with as many folders as you wish yo have (actually, there will be limit based on the capacity of the drive) and any and all folders will contain as much data as you wish, up to the total capacity of the drive. This is why in a typical day of work, disregarding any other media that may be needed for daily delivery (like DVD-RAM disk with typical 4.7 gb capacity) the one daily folder will never be exhausted. There will never be a requirement to go to another folder (or partition as with the Fostex) for the primary drive (the sound roll) but there will be a need for multiple DISKS (since their capacity IS limited). That is why I have always gone with sound roll number variants, A, B, C but preserving the same basis roll number (day 56 will be sound roll 56 but sound roll 56 may be on several disks, 56, 56A, 56B, etc.).

-  Jeff Wexler

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And therein lies the dilemma...  I always start day one with sound roll #1, but if day one has a film break or two, and I change the roll number, day two will be sound roll #3, or 4, etc.

While I understand the convenience, I'm not sure I understand the importance of having the sound roll number match the production day.  The third can just keep a sheet that correlates production days (and dates) with sound roll numbers for quick reference.

As for things specific to the Deva: the Deva, like many of the other recorders out there, has done away with partitions, as in disk partitions, in favor of Folders --- and with the Deva these are variable size. The hard drive is one volume with as many folders as you wish yo have (actually, there will be limit based on the capacity of the drive) and any and all folders will contain as much data as you wish, up to the total capacity of the drive. 

I guess what I don't understand is that regardless of media size and partitions, why wouldn't you just create a new folder for a new sound roll, regardless that roll change happens because of a film break or because of a new production day?  That way all of the contents of the folders on the HDD exactly match the contents of the DVD-RAM discs submitted to telecine (and what's in the script supervisor's notes, etc) with a minimum of confusion for everybody involved, rather than the unorthodox ABC method that may cause confusion to others down the line.

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Jeff,

Metacorder also uses folders. The folders are automatically generated from the roll numbers and that roll's audio and sound reports are automatically placed in it.  So, in the case of Metacorder, each soundroll or DVD or CF, (or what have you in the future) has a corresponding folder wiith the same name and same contents.  As it seems to have become standard procedure, or at least very common, for the sound editorial team to never see the original media, and instead obtain their material directly from a clone of the original hard drive, my feeling is that having the discs and folders harmonized is likely helpful to post.

Those with post experience, please chime in.      

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What I usually do is; They do a film break at 6pm, like Jeff suggested, and continued to shoot that day. I change folders on the Deva from Roll#1 to Roll#2 at the film break. I shoot the rest of day 1 on Roll#2, and pick up day 2's shooting on Roll#2 where I left off.

i.e. when they SHIP the film, I change rolls. If the film from day 1, post break, sits in the office overnight waiting for  shipment with day 2 film up to the break, sound matches camera. If they ship the film again at wrap (rarely happens), I'll break again and increment the sound roll.

I didn't explain that very well, but you get the idea.

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I change folders on the Deva from Roll#1 to Roll#2 at the film break. I shoot the rest of day 1 on Roll#2, and pick up day 2's shooting on Roll#2 where I left off.

This can be a real problem with telecine dailies projects, if you happen to have overlapping timecode for files in a single folder.

In other words: if day 1 (on roll #2) has a take with a timecode of 13:12:20:00, and then you start day 2 and have a different take that has a timecode of 13:12:10:00, things will blow up in post. Neither the Fostex DV40 nor the newer DV824 can access both files when they're in "Time Link" mode (which is standard for film dailies or tape-sync dailies). We can manually cue each file by hand, but it adds a lot of time to the dailies session.

We have no problem in post if you create a new directory (folder) and put the next day's material in there. Just be sure to indicate the break on the sound report, and label the disk "Sound Rolls 1 & 2," or "Sound Rolls 1B and 2A," something like that. That way, the time-code conflicts will never happen inside the same directory.

If the sound is all being synced up by the editor, then there's no problem.

--Marc

P.S. Love your avatar! "Righty-oh!"

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