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Changeable Capsule Pencil Mics - Advice


mikevarela

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Ive tried (at least what I thought) of the Oktava pencils and was not impressed. Lot's of handling noise and distortion from the slightest amount of wind.

Bear in mind that Oktava has some quality control issues and mics can vary tremendously from one to the next. Do a little search here to find out how to get a good one.
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"Trying to spend about 1200 and under for two with capsules"

- As I previously stated, that's in the Audio Technica price range (new). $1200 would buy a pair w/capsules. $500 for two alternate caps. I don't know if they're available in a 'matched' stereo set like some of the others.

If considering the Oktava, I would recommend 'The Sound Room', who tests and hand picks the best at the Russian factory. Of course, one pays more for this service. It won't help the inherent handling/wind noise issue much though. The Mike Joly mod would to some extent, but adequate shock mounts and wind protection is needed for most any mics.

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Slightly off centre suggestion, Mike, but 2 (or 4) of my most oft used mics for FX recording (and that's what I record, not dialogue: I'm a dialogue and FX editor who often goes out recording) are the DPA 4060 lav. Although the noise floor is high compared to my schoeps, mkh and bruel & kjaers, it has a very nice sound and a high output (the 4060 high output model has 20mV/Pa - same area as MKH and blue dot schoeps).

 

They could be considered expensive if looked at as a lav, especially when factoring in the XLR adapter and I'd recommend a couple of 10m extension microdot cables, but I think a new pair would be a decent investment with a long life for the FX recordist (who's going to look after them much better than the typical reality TV talent). You may be lucky and get a pair of used ones in reasonable condition from the dozens of musical shows who buy them in bulk and replace them before they snuff it - but you'd be better off (unlike our radio mic-using friends here) looking for the microdot termination and buying the XLR adapter - or if you're handy by making your own XLR termination (though I prefer my microdot terminations for the DPA extensions since otherwise a heavy XLR on a short 2m cable length makes more suitable spaced cable lengths a tad trickier).

 

Just another idea along the lines of 'paying more for a good investment' - my first half decent mic purchase (getting on for 30 years ago) was the Sennheiser K3 / ME40 and 80 and I still have them in nice nick and they served me well, but the DPA 4060s must be my most used mics in that lower price range.

 

Best, Jez Adamson

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Jez, thanks for the advice.

 

I'm actually looking at mostly recording AMB in OMNI - spaced, for a wide open stackable (in Fx lay) sound. I guess the cardioid isn't so much needed at the moment, as I have the NT4 for stereo. But buying something that can be upgraded is nice. I have looked at the 4060's and they're great. Didn't really think about using them for AMB gathering, though close mic's hard fx seems amazing with something so small. Do you just tape them to a rod or something similar to keep them placed or angled?

 

And if someone has suggestions for OMNIS in the sub 1200 range then I'd love to hear about it. So much research and I really don't want to make a purchase that I'll regret later.

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Apart from the well known brands that manufacture their own mics, I recommend comparing (visually) any low cost microphone with the Chinese OEM manufactuers - Alctron and 797 Audio are the main ones.   If they look identical apart from brand and coloring, they are the same part, and will sound the same.

The US side company may do additional QA and matching and provide warranty service, but the product is the same.

 

Being a techie, I love the idea of swappable capsules, but the experience is usually that they are frail and moisture / skin oil between the parts is a recipe for disaster on location.     I purchased a pair of AT3032 omnis way back, they sound great for concert recording, complementing the pair of NT5s I also use.   I'd recommend the AT4022 based on that experience (AT3032 is nla)

 

Tom.

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Jez, thanks for the advice.

 

I'm actually looking at mostly recording AMB in OMNI - spaced, for a wide open stackable (in Fx lay) sound. I guess the cardioid isn't so much needed at the moment, as I have the NT4 for stereo. But buying something that can be upgraded is nice. I have looked at the 4060's and they're great. Didn't really think about using them for AMB gathering, though close mic's hard fx seems amazing with something so small. Do you just tape them to a rod or something similar to keep them placed or angled?

 

And if someone has suggestions for OMNIS in the sub 1200 range then I'd love to hear about it. So much research and I really don't want to make a purchase that I'll regret later.

 

Hi Mike, I second your interest in spaced omni for ambience recording, especially for the film stage which it often excels at. Whilst its not always practical to set up several stands for each position (compared to a single stand or handheld coincident rig) it can often yield great results.

 

Back to the 4060s, I've taped them to toy fishing rods (bear in mind the cable length is only 2m so that's limiting easy practical reach to 1.5-2m unless either using microdot extension cables which come as 3, 5 or 10m I think or meaning securing the XLR in an awkward place to use a standard XLR-XLR extension). I've hung them from branches and taped or blu-tacked them to whatever industrial architecture is handy. Or you could make a simple handheld gizmo out of anything from lightweight extension tubes or a coathanger wire to keep them apart anything from 30cm to 2m ...

 

I and colleagues have regularly positioned them either side of a shoulder bag or backpack (thus 30-40cm apart which is sufficient) for stealthy FX ambience gathering. At least before the authorities started taking potshots at people with wired backpacks. The wind fluffies that DPA make for them are very good. Once while recording film ambiences in Bucharest I believe nobody noticed the two tiny pompoms tied to either side of my shoulder bag. What did notice them however was the poodle who ran across the park towards me and gobbled one up: thankfully the windshield slipped off easily and he didn't bite the mic head off ... thankfully also he soon realised the windshield wasn't such a great snack and spat it back out so I could continue using it after a quick wipe and dry in the sun. No more incidents like that since.

 

They're also good and quick for eg car interiors (although the lower sensitivity 4061 generally used for voice better suits most engines and exhausts etc). Finally I'd say its my favourite 'rain' ambience mic - suspended with a small bit of 'washing up sponge + scourer' above the capsule to absorb any drops and thus avoid 'mic hits' of odd drops hitting the capsule. And the size just makes them able to close mic all sorts of things that might otherwise be far trickier to mic or to try out obscure positioning.

 

Finally (though I'll pass the gauntlet on) I'm afraid I've no experience with other lower cost omni mics or capsules for swap-systems: I've used Schoeps, DPA / Bruel & Kjaer and MKH20s. My main omnis are B&K but they're stratospheric in price! I'd continue to recommend the 4060 for their sound quality and all round usefulness and probably look to later get a pair of MKH8020s if you thought later that you wanted a quality pair of omnis (over a quality pair of cardioids or hypers ... ) but if/when you do get to this stage I'd hire and try all the options and buy the toys you like to play with most (or the tools that do the job best?). Like you my work purchases are mostly in the post arena which tragically is a upgrade/regrade treadmill. My mics and mic accessories have been collected over a career but thankfully don't seem to become useless after 18 months.

 

Jez

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Jez, thanks again.

 

Question,

 

MKH 20 ---or--- MKH 8020?

 

Do you like the MKH20's?

 

Hi again Mike,

I've used the MKH20s in the past for ambience recordings etc and yep I really like them. I've never used the 8020, so my comments have to be taken in context. On paper etc they have a much higher frequency response and also a lower response (HF LF, you know what I mean...) which could be useful (or a burden without the filter and pad on the 20) are a lovely size (again for some) and cheaper (that the 20, let alone Schoeps and DPA mics).

 

Then again, here is a semi-complimentary but fairly critical review from an owner used to both models:

 

 

http://www.ips.org.uk/files/11_Sennheiser_MKH8020.pdf

 

(Scrolling down <http://www.ips.org.uk/files/ > a different review also of the 8040: )

 

http://www.ips.org.uk/files/12_Sennheiser_MKH_8040.pdf

 

...where he complains about the clarity of the top end when recording orchestral music (strings). As I said, its outside my experience so cannot really comment further on particular aspects of the 8020. I would suggest occasionally hiring a selection of omnis, possibly including some of the cheaper options out there (Neumanns perhaps as well as the AKG and AT mid priced models if local hire places do them - but certainly the MKH20s and 8020s, Schoeps and DPA) and try them out over several scenaria. And try a pair of DPA 4060s from hire too.

 

I've used and like MKH20s, and they would be my main recommendation in several instances. My primary cardioids are the MKH8040s and I love them, and happily use them with the MKH40, which they very closely match in sound. I really REALLY wish that Sennheiser could come up with a USEFUL bass attenuation module that would help it for dialogue use ... anything along the lines of the Schoeps cuts 1 and 2 or that new 4th order module ... until then, we have the Rycote Tacit and I continue to use my MKH40.

 

Apart from the price aspect (which I mean favourably) the great bonus for FX and field use of the MKH8000 series are their absolute resilience to any unfavourable conditions ... kind of like the Nagra reputation of old ... I would never hesitate in taking or using these mics anywhere, hot cold humid or dry. Whilst my own Schoeps has never cried on me I've certainly heard its characteristic whining on dialogue tracks I've cut, and it generally stays at home when the MKHs go jetsetting. The other bonus I'd say for the MKH is its noise floor if you're thinking of principally gathering ambiences and nature style stuff.

 

To go off-off- topic to finish however, I can't help thinking that a pair of good cardioids (or perhaps even hypers if you think you'll be needing the tighter pickup for both FX and dialogue use ... or two cardioids and a hyper perhaps) might be a more useful tool / investment before the good omnis. And as you've experienced with the Rode, the medium-low priced mic is giving you good service and could be considered a 'good investment'. There's nothing wrong in picking up a cheapish pair of omnis which will give similar service: you'll soon discover what they're ok for and in what circumstances they are lacking (and hire more expensive options for such situations as very quiet ambiences). They'll eventually become your b (or c) mics when asked to record a smoke filled battlefield and production gives you your investment back! And to come full circle, a pair of DPA4060s if well looked after will be your most used 'B' mics in 'A' service in many years time ...

 

Jez

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A decent, cheap set of pencils you should consider are Avantone CK-1. For $300 a pair, they come with omni, card and hyper caps. A giant-killer IMHO, and better than Oktava, and I've owned the Joly-modded Oktavas. They also have a five-year warranty.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Peluso Labs in Willis, VA makes some interesting mics. I haven't heard the CEMC6 but have heard some of their other mics. Less than $400 with a cardio capsule and omni, wide cardio and hypercariod capsules are available for  <$100.

http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/microphones/CEMC6.html

 

 

The P-84 is less than $1,200 with an omni and a cardiod capsule, shock mount and hard stand mount.

http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/microphones/P-84.html

Best regards,

Jim

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