hiro nakamura Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hi guys, I am new for the denecke TS-C slate. I took a few pictures during the shooting for my sound bag and the slate. I found out that the slate TC is 3-4 frames faster than my nomad tc. Is that normal or I did something wrong. We were shooting 29'97. I have read the "error 30" issue. My slate setting is 1 My nomad is 29.97 Than I did a test on 25 for check with cable connected to the slate. But still 3 frames... I sent an email to denecke just now. But I just also want to hear from you guys. Appreciate your guidance. Hiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 This is usually a display issue, similar to the issue when looking at a camera's TC display and it is off relative to another TC generator's display (from a recorder or a sync box). Each device has its own method of DISPLAYING the timecode and discrepancies rarely indicate that there is a timecode problem. A true sync test is the only real answer in my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al mcguire Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 from the Archives - When in doubt just call Charlie Parra @ Denecke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hiro "Than I did a test on 25 for check with cable connected to the slate. But still 3 frames... I sent an email to denecke just now. But I just also want to hear from you guys. " What brings you to think it's the slate? Do you only have one?... Did you try with another TC slate? I would check in with ZAX as well... Maybe they have some info for you... Like Jeff says, it may be a display offset.... Does it drift or hold constant... How long did you perform the test for... Check in 30 min 1 hour, 3 hours... 6 hrs.. etc.... see if it drifts.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiro nakamura Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hiro "Than I did a test on 25 for check with cable connected to the slate. But still 3 frames... I sent an email to denecke just now. But I just also want to hear from you guys. " What brings you to think it's the slate? Do you only have one?... Did you try with another TC slate? I would check in with ZAX as well... Maybe they have some info for you... Like Jeff says, it may be a display offset.... Does it drift or hold constant... How long did you perform the test for... Check in 30 min 1 hour, 3 hours... 6 hrs.. etc.... see if it drifts.. Unfortunately, I only have one digit slate. I followed instruction strictly. I didn't do any serious test before the shoot. I did all the workflow test, such as jam the TC, check the frame rate etc. I thought that any professional gear should be working together accordingly. It might a display offset. But still it should sync perfect than 3 frame off.... Anyways, I will try to find out the problem.... Thanks guys for the inputs. Appreciate ! Hiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 "It might a display offset. But still it should sync perfect than 3 frame off...." if it IS in fact just a display "problem" this has no affect on the accuracy of syncing. If it is just a display issue (meaning the offset is caused by each display taking its own time to give you the numbers) there will be no offset between the timecodes when syncing the tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnpaul215 Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 LCDs are sometimes a little slow to refresh compared to the display in a slate. I would guess the display is slow more than the slate being fast. I would think it would be more consistent though, and then the offset could be compensated for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 There have been lags and display offsets from the very beginning of time code slates. With the original Denecke TS-1, the display would lag code by at least one frame, maybe two, because the processing circuit had to "read" all 80-bits of data before it could display the result. Since that time, Charlie has revised the software to correct for this reading lag and I believe the TS-3 is spot-on. (Don't know where the TS-2 falls in this time line.) Since the Nomad display is intended to be used as a slate I might have thought it would also have software compensation. But, the primary function of the display is to manage the operation of the recorder and the slate function would really only be used in a documentary situation. As JohnPaul points out, refresh rates on displays may be somewhat variable and making the function work perfectly in all situations may have been either not possible with the hardware selected or more trouble than it was worth. After all, there is no harm in a stable offset; the data is still functional for syncing. As others suggested, Charlie is the best source for information on this sort of issue. http://denecke.com/ 661-607-0206 David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmgoodin Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 I agree with Jeff, This is probably just a display latency issue. Remember the Slate Processor only has 2 tasks when not being Jammed: Calculate the next Frame and Display it. While the Nomad Processor is doing a myriad of other tasks including Converting Audio to digital format, adjusting levels, displaying VU meters and Metadata, routing audio inputs and outputs, recording the data to multiple Cards, etc. Translating the TC to a displayable format may be way down that list of tasks for the processor since the TC display on the Nomad is not critical unless you are using the display of the Nomad as your primary TC Slate. Of course this is just conjecture on my part. Only Howie or Glenn at Zaxcom could determine if the latency is in the display since only Zaxcom knows how the hardware and firmware function. It may be possible for them to put in a correction factor to compensate for the display latency, but that may be difficult since the amount of processor load varies with number of tracks armed, sample rate, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hiro, Like everybody else says display issue. But ... Also check the accuracy of your Nomad. Take 2 slates. Jam one of them to Nomad. Set the other one in read mode and connect it to Nomad TC Out. Don't forget to set the second READ slate Plus 1 Frame. "MODE A" Leave both for X amount of hours. Take pictures of the 2 slates. Calculate the drift... Hi guys, I am new for the denecke TS-C slate. I took a few pictures during the shooting for my sound bag and the slate. I found out that the slate TC is 3-4 frames faster than my nomad tc. Is that normal or I did something wrong. We were shooting 29'97. I have read the "error 30" issue. My slate setting is 1 My nomad is 29.97 Than I did a test on 25 for check with cable connected to the slate. But still 3 frames... I sent an email to denecke just now. But I just also want to hear from you guys. Appreciate your guidance. HiroImageUploadedByTapatalk1429852783.830840.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1429852726.238715.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1429852755.533628.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiro nakamura Posted April 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Thanks for all your value inputs. Will try to make a test accordingly, and figure out the a conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Rado, Can you elaborate on your point #4? "Don't forget to set the second READ slate Plus 1 Frame. "MODE A" Are you saying that the nomad/Maxx tc output always has a 1 frame offset compared to what is recorded on the card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Display discrepancies? Yes, I heard about that, but here we have two devices that both claim to be useable for slate purposes, so a (variable) lag in either display would be unacceptable. Even more so from the slate, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 No. Denecke slates have 1 frame delay in read mode. Denecke has a fix in the menu to compensate for that delay. WHich reminds me (: i used my slate in read mode yesterday and I need to put it back in no delay... Haha Denecke should really set the READ mode delay to be automatic. Rado, Can you elaborate on your point #4? "Don't forget to set the second READ slate Plus 1 Frame. "MODE A" Are you saying that the nomad/Maxx tc output always has a 1 frame offset compared to what is recorded on the card? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Parra Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hi Hiro, The Denecke TS-3 and TS-C slate displays are frame accurate. So what you are experiencing seems to be latency on the LCD display of the Nomad (as many others have mentioned). The good folks at Zaxcom are better qualified than me to confirm whether this is the case or not. Rado, we have kept the +1 frame read as an option so that users that own or rent older slates (TS-1 or TS-2) will have matching displays. This should avoid a message from post saying "why is the camera "A" slate slower than Camera "B" slate?". BTW the +1 reader option only affects the read mode of the TS-C or TS-3 so you can set it and forget it. I hope this helps! Charlie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted April 24, 2015 Report Share Posted April 24, 2015 Hi Charlie, Thanks for your input. Did not know about +1 frame only READ mode. I have done so much switching back and forward thinking the +1 frame affects the gen mode as well. (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Zaxcom claims that the LCD slate on Nomad is frame accurate. I'll do a test and post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 1 frame lag on my Nomad LCD. There may be a setting to correct that, I'll check on that with the wizards at Zaxcom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek H Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hiro, What firmware are you running? That may be the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Since it looks like the frame rate is 29.97, I'm wondering if the known Auto Jam problem between Zaxcom timecode and Denecke slates could be the problem. gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I would do a workflow test and load the files into a laptop and see how the WAV files compare with the camera files. If they have the identical timecode and are in sync, don't worry about them. If there's a 1- or 2-frame offset, make sure that it's constant and stays at the same rate all day long. If it's constantly drifting -- sometimes 2 frames, sometimes 5 frames, sometimes 10 frames or more -- then you have a real problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiro nakamura Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hiro, What firmware are you running? That may be the culprit. My nomad 6 is on version 7.05 Not sure about the slate. I guess it was purchased in 2013 March. It's a friend 's one that I rented from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiro nakamura Posted April 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 I would do a workflow test and load the files into a laptop and see how the WAV files compare with the camera files. If they have the identical timecode and are in sync, don't worry about them. If there's a 1- or 2-frame offset, make sure that it's constant and stays at the same rate all day long. If it's constantly drifting -- sometimes 2 frames, sometimes 5 frames, sometimes 10 frames or more -- then you have a real problem. All the footage are with client now. A bit complicated to get the footage back. But will ask the post guys to check if it's in sync or drift away through the day. Will give my own denecke slate next month. Will try to test more. Thanks Thanks everything for the guidance. Appreciate your help. Hiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
efksound Posted April 25, 2015 Report Share Posted April 25, 2015 Hiro update your Nomad to at least 7.26 and try again Howy fixed some things dealing with the slate screen 7.26 Nov 12 fixed time code display inaccuracy on SLATE page fixed time code zero frames beep inaccuracy on SLATE page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiro nakamura Posted April 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2015 Hiro update your Nomad to at least 7.26 and try again Howy fixed some things dealing with the slate screen 7.26 Nov 12 fixed time code display inaccuracy on SLATE page fixed time code zero frames beep inaccuracy on SLATE page Thanks efksound ! Will do that! Hiro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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