Joe Riggs Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I have a project where they recorded they recorded 2 channels to a sound device - (1 boom, 1 lav), at they same time they also feed a direct feed from the mixer into the camera, delivering the same 2 channels (1 boom, 1 lav). Typically, I would always sync to the sound mixers audio but since in this case it is only 2 channels, with a direct feed from the mixer to the camera, and when evaluating the recording, they are nearly identical, with the feed to the camera actually being a little stronger. Therefore, I'm inclined to use the feed from the camera this time. Is there anything i could be missing by going this route? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 If the term "stronger" refers in this instance to level, then it's a misleading way to judge. I would care more about distortion, modulation noise, background noise, and transient response than level. In all likelihood, and expressed in simple terms, the Sound Devices recording is probably cleaner than that from the camera. Important question, "What calibrated studio monitors are you using to make your evaluations?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yep, took distortion, modulation noise, background noise, into account and they are nearly identical. Any variation in noise that might be present between the two is negligible. I'm using Sony headphones, MDR7506. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Interesting. So what specific audio recorder and camera are you recording to? And which mics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't find the 7506 to be the best choice for critical listening. I tried mixing some live music with them and found them to be problematic for that application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted April 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 I don't find the 7506 to be the best choice for critical listening. Yeah, i understand, and trust me typically there's no way I would even consider using the feed, but in this case, since it is just 2 channels, and I evaluated it using decent equipment (not the best), hypothetically if there was a 1 db difference in noise it would register with those headphones or in a DAW and so with the difference, if any being so minor, we should be fine. John, what headphones would you recommend? Interesting. So what specific audio recorder and camera are you recording to? And which mics? A feed was sent via xlr directly from the mixer to a RED camera, I wasn't the recordist so I don't know specifications about the sound equipment used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted April 30, 2015 Report Share Posted April 30, 2015 Thanks. So it may not have been a Sound Devices (brand) mixer/recorder. No worries. During sit-down interviews and when asked, I've sent hardwired scratch tracks to RED cameras (Epic, Dragon, etc) through that little 3.5mm connector. Sent at mic level (more or less)... On my end, Schoeps and Sound Devices...on their end...well, I can hear a difference; they sometimes think it sounds good enough to use...it usually isn't terrible. My files become seldom-used backups. Healthy-budget corporate and budget-challenged doc work. I could envision a mix of equipment, craft, and location where no difference is readily noticeable...and the end result is still good-enough-to-go. Ya, I'm a sound snob. Ya, I choose my battles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Honestly, I'm a sound snob too, if there was anything that would make the mixer tracks superior in this case, I would use them nothing is worse than bad audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
engaudio Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Thanks. So it may not have been a Sound Devices (brand) mixer/recorder. No worries. During sit-down interviews and when asked, I've sent hardwired scratch tracks to RED cameras (Epic, Dragon, etc) through that little 3.5mm connector. Sent at mic level (more or less)... On my end, Schoeps and Sound Devices...on their end...well, I can hear a difference; they sometimes think it sounds good enough to use...it usually isn't terrible. My files become seldom-used backups. Healthy-budget corporate and budget-challenged doc work. I could envision a mix of equipment, craft, and location where no difference is readily noticeable...and the end result is still good-enough-to-go. Ya, I'm a sound snob. Ya, I choose my battles. I hear you.. A lot of the time these days I'm asked to record straight to a C300 , F5(5) or Red Xxxx. Some people just don't want to sync anything.. Grant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 1, 2015 Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is there any specific reason to not use the audio from the mixer? I mean by the time needed to type you question here, you most likely would have finished syncing so time is probably not one of the reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted May 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2015 Is there any specific reason to not use the audio from the mixer? Yeah, more work, I'm currently finishing a different project, then I'll be tackling that one. Some people just don't want to sync anything.. True for some folks, but in this case, and it is the first case I've come across where there really is nothing to gain by syncing. If the files were polys with even 3 mono tracks, 1 boom and 2 lavs, it would be worth syncing. If the sound quality was superior, it would be worth syncing. In this instance, it's not, and the feed is just as good as the audio from the mixer. Big thanks to the recordist, he did a great job and ended up saving us some time in the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 ... John, what headphones would you recommend? ... I'm sure you know that headphone selection is highly personal and quite subjective. You may want to try Ultrasone HFI-680 -- if that model is still available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Weaver Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 The RED was not designed for audio. Not even a little bit. I would not have sent an even remotely usable track to that camera body. Those audio inputs should be used only for reference and only under extreme duress from the desires of post production. Use the sound recorder's audio absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I would not have sent an even remotely usable track to that camera body. So you would send a lower quality track out of spite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted May 2, 2015 Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 I would not have sent an even remotely usable track to that camera body. Basically you mean, not "so it would suck" but "so they'd ONLY use it as a scratch track and not for final," right? I hear you on that. But if it's not my shoot, I'll try to convince them of what I consider the best course of action, but then do what they ask and deliver the best I can. I'm just a hired gun; it's not my fight...as tough as that sometimes is to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Riggs Posted May 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2015 Basically you mean, not "so it would suck" but "so they'd ONLY use it as a scratch track and not for final," right? Even if that is what he meant, he should be sending the best track possible. Like you said, you're hired to do a job. I understand that without listening to the tracks it is hard for others to believe that in this case the quality is the same. I agree with Todd's axiom "use sound recorder's audio absolutely" and follow that 99.9% of the time, but let's say a miracle happened, the feed sent directly from the mixer to the camera is as good as the separate tracks? One shouldn't be that closed off that they can't deviate from the normal workflow if the evidence supports it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prahlad Strickland Posted May 23, 2015 Report Share Posted May 23, 2015 Sync the audio. Right click. Sync. Premier. Resolve. Avid. All 3 have auto sync. I assure u the sound devices is a better recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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