USA 'used' pricing?

[pindrop]

I was interested in some used equipment offered here again, and was going to comment on that thread but then realized that was probably not fair, as it's a more general phenomenon.

 

I really don't understand USA used pricing? Often seems far to high to me, and I might just as well buy new, directly from a dealer, as the used price saving is nothing like enough incentive, it's just not worth the messing about.

I always thought used pricing for items in reasonable condition should be between 50-70% of the brand new price, instead of the 90-95% that seems to be asked for?

 

But I guess Americans just don't think the same otherwise USA used pricing would not be generally pitched so high. It's a phenomenon I've seen repeatedly, where I just would not buy used equipment at USA offered prices, for a miniscule saving.

 

Americans just seem to be prepared to pay much higher prices for used equipment than Europeans for example.

 

Is this true?

[Jim Feeley]

Ya, I know what you mean. Some prices for used equipment seem too high to be worth it. But not all, and I have bought used equipment from people posting on JWS.

 

I'd consider the differences between the seller's asking price, the buyer's offering price, and the final selling price.

[enginufuk]

I have seen used items being sold for same or more than the new price of a gear on ebay, here in the us market. The same exact item!! I could assure myself that it had to be some type of gambling "disorder" or some type of a problem to be able to do such a thing. 

(And no, I'm not talking about Antiques, retro items which obviously have different reasons for their pricing)

 

While I used to live in Istanbul?? not so much but bargaining was a huge thing!!!

[Sound Grab]

I think a lot of it is compensation for eBay fees, but I found deals on eBay a few times. I actually won a UCR411a for $600 a few years back.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[dfisk]

It's worse with cars. Several years ago, when I needed a car after my new car was totaled in a car wreck, I was looking at used Honda Civics, and there were civics that were a few years old with 30K miles on them that were as expensive as a brand new Civic. Made no sense to me. 

 

I think in terms of gear, it's what the market will bear. If a few hundred bucks can be worth it on used gear that isn't that old and has a track record of being extremely reliable. 

[RPSharman]

I don't pay more than 60-70% for good used gear. If the item is current, in great shape, in high demand, and I really want it, I'll creep up to 70-80%. Very rare.

As you say, savings aren't worth the lack of warranty and service you get when buying new.

Remember, asking prices are not selling prices.

[John Blankenship]

I think you're being over-general. I don't see it as a particular trend, nor as specifically "an American thing." It's much more varied than that.

Some sellers try really hard to recoup as much as they can of the original price. Keep in mind this is an asking price and often those items can languish without being sold. I've seen some items listed high enough that, were I in the market for the particular item, I would no doubt choose to buy new -- which includes full warranty and dealer support -- over the only-slightly-below-new selling price.

On the other hand, recently a member here was selling quite a bit of gear that was priced to move -- and it did. Most items were snapped up moments after being posted.

[johnpaul215]

You also can't usually negotiate up from the asking price. Personally I would prefer a "this is the price" situation, but people like to negotiate. I can't tell you how much I hate buying a car.

[Doug Beatty]

I'll add that some times dealers offer 90 day warranty on used equipment, something you can't get through craigslist or eBay, so it may be worth a slight premium to some that can't afford sticker price.

 

As for used sales on-line, it's anything goes. The market really dictates the price. High in demand, well cared for, professional equipment holds its value. Today I'd probably swipe $2800-$3K on my card for a used 633 in good condition and walk away feeling like I got a great deal.

[Philip Perkins]

I think non- or inexperienced professionals often have no idea how little their used gear is worth, esp if it really has been used a good deal, they are not the orig owners, and it is not a current model.  Eventually they come down on price or don't sell.  I generally figure that on old gear a starting point might be 50% of orig price, and the sale price will prob go down from there.

 

philp

[Carlos Maeda]

When comparing new and used item prices, you also have to consider taxes. Here in Chicago, I have to pay 9.75% sales tax buying through a dealer. On a $3000 item, that's almost $300 additional.

 

Also depends on supply and demand of a said item. If there are few available used, a seller can list for a higher percentage and still make a sale, and vice versa.

[Mirror]

The funniest thing is seeing how much people want for their Nagra's. They think because they paid $15,000 for it 25 years ago that it should be worth $5,000 today. Unless you're collecting it for an art piece the thing is really only good for a door stop. How much would you pay for a door stop?

[johnpaul215]

I would guess to a certain extent dealers establish a standard of what used price, and the market takes it, or leaves it. I have always wondered what is fair when I am selling something used, and for certain things you can look at an average of prices on eBay, as well as the used pages of dealers sites. Like for used Lectrosonics gear, or a Sennheiser microphone. There's enough sold there that you can see sort of an average.

When I decided to sell my Fusion, I had no idea what was a fair price, so I asked a few people and they were actually all about the same place. That's not something you see a lot of on the market to get an average. That said, mine hasn't yet sold, but it's not like a wireless set or something that every mixer has a few of.

All things considered, an older Lectrosonics 211 set still has a pretty good resale value even though it's older now. It's also perfectly functional and still easy to use.... basically it can still make you money. It might not have the features of the SM series, but it's still very economically viable.

[Glen Trew]

I was interested in some used equipment offered here again, and was going to comment on that thread but then realized that was probably not fair, as it's a more general phenomenon.

 

I really don't understand USA used pricing? Often seems far to high to me, and I might just as well buy new, directly from a dealer, as the used price saving is nothing like enough incentive, it's just not worth the messing about.

I always thought used pricing for items in reasonable condition should be between 50-70% of the brand new price, instead of the 90-95% that seems to be asked for?

 

But I guess Americans just don't think the same otherwise USA used pricing would not be generally pitched so high. It's a phenomenon I've seen repeatedly, where I just would not buy used equipment at USA offered prices, for a miniscule saving.

 

Americans just seem to be prepared to pay much higher prices for used equipment than Europeans for example.

 

Is this true?

 

Hi Pindrop,

 

Your perception of used prices in the US because my experience is a bit different. For instance, while prices for items on the Trew Audio consignment program are up to the seller, when suggesting a selling price we generally start at 70% of new market price, then adjust higher or lower depending on age, condition, demand, and need to sell. For example, if 70% of new price happens to be $500, and the item is in very good condition but the seller is wanting to sell quickly, they might decide to price it at $450 or $400. If the seller is in no hurry and there are no other items of that type for sale, then they may list it at $550 or $600. Etc.

 

Of course, at the moment, the US dollar is very strong in Europe, so could this be what makes the US prices seem high in the UK?

 

Glen Trew

[JonG]

I will admit that there are some people who want what the item is worth when selling used, probably not considering what they themselves would willingly pay for the same used item. I have been to retirement sales and have seen items for sale for well more than what I could get the same item used anywhere else. Id say that the best situation is to determin what you will pay for a particular used item, and keep your eyes open for when you see it for that price. A few years ago I purchased some ucr411a's for around $1200, which to me was an unheard of price. Nothing is out on the market to take their place, yet that seems to be the going number these days. I will say that while there are some sellers who want to get as much back on their inventment as possible, there are also a very reasonable number of sellers that understand that their item will not sell unless there is a reasonable discount. I find it difficult sometimes to keep myself from buying items every day from what I see here on jw, on ebay, or at the usual suspects. I think that RSharman has the right idea regarding figures to go for and expect. Sorry to hear that you find the used prices still too high, but keep your eyes open and you will be surprised what you find.

[pindrop]

Thanks for the interesting comments, and yes I agree with RPSharman myself, and interesting to see a used equipment dealer perspective from Glen. I usually see dealer prices as justifiably a little higher as they have a whole operation to run.

 

When I sell items I usually aim at around the 50-60% of new cost (in reasonable condition) and am mindful of the fact I've already earned at a least a proportion, if not all of the original cost to me, from hire.

Though maybe this becoming a little harder to achieve with all the new gizmos the ever inventive manufacturers are coming out with, to tempt us to spend more?

 

In Europe you can register as a business, to get the other side of sales tax. ie. you charge sales tax (VAT around 20%) on your invoices (to European productions, not on productions outside Europe) and you also reclaim sales tax on any purchases you've made, and therefore don't pay sales tax.

I think some purchasers, not registered for sales tax, think of the total cost to them, including sales tax, as the starting point for pricing for sale items, whereas if you're registered, that is not the starting point, if you see what I mean?

Is there a similar arrangement of registering for sales tax charging and re-claiming in America?

[Glen Trew]

In the end, prices for are determined by a balance of two factors: 1) The highest price the market is willing to pay. 2) The lowest price the seller is willing to take. The market usually keeps the average price between those two extremes. Prices for used equipment can and do vary wildly from day to day, but the market still works to keep fluctuations in check. Those in the business of buying and selling have 3rd factor to consider, which is to conduct business in a way to encourage repeat business and loyal customers to the extent that it creates a strong and stable business for all concerned (customers, staff, vendors, and owners alike).

[Constantin]

Yes, I agree with this. If you can sell an item the price was right. If you can't sell it, the price was wrong, or the product is not wanted.

[jason porter]

Excellent point!

Yes, I agree with this. If you can sell an item the price was right. If you can't sell it, the price was wrong, or the product is not wanted.

[John Blankenship]

Yes, I agree with this. If you can sell an item the price was right. If you can't sell it, the price was wrong, or the product is not wanted.

Agreed. An item's worth is either its value to you, or whatever someone else will pay for it.

[johnpaul215]

Ok, what about something like lithium-something rechargeable batteries? That's something with a finite usable life. They may have a few years left, but far from something like a 416. I still have a few IDX NP1s from 2010/2011, and pretty much stopped using them in late 2012 when I got a few B4B 90Wh v-mounts.

The chargers probably have a longer life, but I have no idea what's valid for those batteries. I know a lot of people hate eBay (I don't), but an auction is a way to sell something at current market value. At least when it's something closer to commodity than a very occasional purchase. In a way, that seems to be a "fair" way to sell them. It's also hard to say they made back their cost through rental because we don't get a NP1 rental, but they are an integral part of the whole kit.

(1) in this specific case I'm trading my NP1s to a mixer buddy and will find a camera person for the v-mounts (possibly eBay) but more of a general point of things.