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When recording more than 6 actors...


shug

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Hi all,

I use a Sound Devices 778t and cl-9 on my cart. I have some scripted work coming up where we have some scenes with 8 actors speaking. I always like to wire every actor before the scene (as per normal!). We have two cameras so i like to use 2 booms which leaves me with 6 remaining channels for Radio mics. Obviously I am two channels short...

Previously where i had a high channel count I have mixed down from my 664 onto one channel on my 788 but it's not pretty! I feel pretty confident I will get all the coverage i need on the booms for these scenes (famous last words!), but i am wondering what others do in these instances where they are limited to 8 inputs!

Thanks in advance for any input :-)

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Use fewer mics? Really. You say this scene is scripted. You have two boom ops. They should be able to follow a bulk of the dialog. I suppose I just don't understand the need to wire everyone. You may need one or two wires for a tough swig or reflection issue, but aside from that, two competent boom ops should be able to cover you

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You're right Wyatt. I guess I'm just so used to and feel a comfort from knowing every actor is wired that it feels kind of wrong knowing two of them won't be wired!

or I could just buy a bigger board I suppose!!

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TV Drama. All actors have lines. One boom (Sennheiser MKH 60) and one wireless (Sennheiser G3 / DPA 4061). The picture is after first take. The guy with black wear the wireless, because I can't boom it from my position.

10624899_710264632344369_678221452117144

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TV Drama. All actors have lines. One boom (Sennheiser MKH 60) and one wireless (Sennheiser G3 / DPA 4061). The picture is after first take. The guy with black wear the wireless, because I can't boom it from my position.

10624899_710264632344369_678221452117144

​nice photo.

re op: maybe post production has asked for everyone 1 on RMs (i'm sure they would understand in the circumstances if it isn't). But anyway if it's Shug's preferred workflow why not track all the cast with RMs on 1 recorder and use the other recorder to do a mix of booms and spots/RMs?

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There's always a way. 

I hate the idea of putting equipment on actors "just because". Some shows require it, lots of cameras, ad-libbed dialogue, unpredictable directors, bad planning, just to name a few. 

It's unfortunate you feel uncomfortable approaching a scene without your safety net. 

I had a scene, a long walk and talk oner, which required 2 booms and 7 radio mics. Once the beginning of the scene was done, I retuned boom receiver for the middle part as two people walked and talked. When the middle was done, I retuned another receiver for the boom at end. The shot was Steadicam with 360°s, stairs, hotel lobby with chandelier, and outside car drive up. Boom for the top in the hotel room, wires in the middle, and boom at the end for cars and characters arriving.  

Sometimes you you just have to be creative. 

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Hi Daniel,

It was decision between me and my sound mixer how to record the scene. If you notice the DPA it is outside from clothes; collaboration between me and camera operator, giving maximum quality as possible.

Also no budget for six or eight wireless; we did the whole project with three wireless and one boom (90% it was only boom).
The shooting plan for this scene was:

A: Wide
B: Three actors - medium
C: Rest three actors - medium
D: Close up in the guy with black clothes (with DPA lav)

Director told me: "Easy. Right?". After the takes director came to me and told me: "Thank you". Happy faces! Also director it is "Friend of Sound" and helped us a lot (avoiding wireless needed).

:)

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Hi Daniel,

It was decision between me and my sound mixer how to record the scene. If you notice the DPA it is outside from clothes; collaboration between me and camera operator, giving maximum quality as possible.

Also no budget for six or eight wireless; we did the whole project with three wireless and one boom (90% it was only boom).
The shooting plan for this scene was:

A: Wide
B: Three actors - medium
C: Rest three actors - medium
D: Close up in the guy with black clothes (with DPA lav)

Director told me: "Easy. Right?". After the takes director came to me and told me: "Thank you". Happy faces! Also director it is "Friend of Sound" and helped us a lot (avoiding wireless needed).

:)

​sound stage?

single camera?

"friend of sound director"

I don't do much scripted stuff at the moment, but when i do get a script the first thing i do is look for the most complicated scene/s ask how they intend to cover it and build my kit spec from there. 8 cast all with lines in a multi camera scene, and probably (at that point) with big variables regarding schedule, direction, locations, cast, coverage, post production requirements etc. I'm estimating kit costs based on 8 RMs, 2 booms, spots and the necessary to record and mix as requested. Maybe they say that is expensive and we look at the days we need that much kit and the days we don't or they commit to a style of coverage which facilitates a simpler approach. Maybe i don't get the gig because they know another hotshot who will look them in the eye and guarantee getting the whole scene on 1 boom and/or will do the post production of the film themselves and/or give 8 RMs for free or optional extras left in the van just for an easy life. Fair enough, but the cost per channel/actor of the kit needed for such a scene is less than they will spend on transport/actor getting them to set everyday, if they don't realise that, it's not for me. Personally i prefer a small footprint approach to recording but as a default i'm scaling what i say is needed to have some margin, anything else feels like self sabotage.

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Why have this discussion before being hired for the job? It's a discussion for prep at the earliest. Unless it's week one, I wouldn't even have discussion during prep. You might discover they're shooting in a sensible and easy manner. 

If you're not being paid properly for rental, then it must be shot accordingly. 

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Why have this discussion before being hired for the job? It's a discussion for prep at the earliest. Unless it's week one, I wouldn't even have discussion during prep. You might discover they're shooting in a sensible and easy manner. 

If you're not being paid properly for rental, then it must be shot accordingly. 

​You are working on (much) higher end production i think and so maybe production sound requirements 1 way or the other have less impact on overall budget? Why would they contest what you need. For me and some others (i think) you get told what they have a budget for at the outset so careful scrutiny has to be made at the outset on how realistic it is and some negotiation is often needed. This is true for my non scripted work as well. I also like to have the agreed kit on a purchase order. 

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Hi Daniel,

It wasn't sound stage; beautiful physical location with fantastic acoustics (all wood).

My previous sound mixer works now for a TV drama with three cameras, 7 actors maximum in one scene with lines. Two wireless, one boom. He and his director has establish a workflow "Rolling wide & tight. After three, four lines the boom is in (to wide frame) to cover medium / close ups". Everyone's happy and IMHO is the best sounding TV Drama here right now. Beautiful MKH 50; I want you!

:)

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To answer the original posters question-  what would we do?  

I could roll a second recorder with the ISOs of wires that were of lesser importance and come up with the best mix with the 8 faders i had to work with.  With two boom operators, this should be relatively easy to accomplish.  Clink a second 788T and tell post what what you are doing.  I would not want to do it everyday but it really is not that hard.  Several shows are done this way.

Not pretty and hard to monitor but if the requirement is for everybody to be wired you'd be covered.

Or change your entire setup. :(

 

 

Edited by johngooch
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What is it that you want us to tell you?  That there is a magic menu in your 788 that allows you to have more channels?  

 

You know the answer to this stuff - you just are refusing to face the reality.  C'mon.

 

Buy/rent more gear or make do with the resources that you have. 

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Your approach should be determined by the shots and or coverage in the scene.

If its two cameras then they would hopefully shoot different groups of actors.

If it's the dreaded one camera wide and the other roving singles (sound unfriendly)

it's time to put lavs on but only viable if you are allowed the time and to my ears

shows that rely on many lavs do not have the sound quality that good booms can offer.

Watching a British series currently where lavs plus post sound cleaning/processing

produce a result that sounds so sterile/in you face (or ears) and unnatural.

 

mike

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What is it that you want us to tell you?  That there is a magic menu in your 788 that allows you to have more channels?  

 

You know the answer to this stuff - you just are refusing to face the reality.  C'mon.

 

Buy/rent more gear or make do with the resources that you have. 

Did you have a rough day? :)

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If you want wireless on everyone but don't have the wireless, see if some of the actors have all or most of their lines next to another actor, maybe even facing one. Then just mic up the other one. If they are close enough to each other, acoustics are nice and the actor with the mic doesn't cause any clothes rustling, the mic might pick up the other actor just fine.

But as others have hinted...  might be overkill. 

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What is it that you want us to tell you?  That there is a magic menu in your 788 that allows you to have more channels?  

 

You know the answer to this stuff - you just are refusing to face the reality.  C'mon.

 

Buy/rent more gear or make do with the resources that you have. 

​Sounds like a good response to me. 

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Previously where i had a high channel count I have mixed down from my 664 onto one channel on my 788 but it's not pretty!

​Not pretty but works perfectly fine if TC and file names are coherent.

You might also use the 788 to record 8 wireless isos, and do a live mix of them into the 664 which also records the two booms.

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