Jump to content
Jeff Wexler

DPA 4098 - first impressions

Recommended Posts

On August 3, 2017 at 0:25 AM, RadoStefanov said:

I know dpa qualifies the 4098  as film mic and sells it to us but I really like the 4080 for all the reason mentioned above.

And if a  lot of us can not live with the low cut I am sure if DPA makes a flat 4080 it would be a very popular mic...

Rado and I are together on this. The 4098 was not billed as a film production mic until people in the field saw it's usefulness for plant mics, particularly in cars. It was originally billed as a lectern microphone that would also be feeding loudspeakers. They are certainly a useful tool to have on the set, and I have used them successfully as car plants, but I much prefer the sound quality characteristics of the shorter, more open, 4080 for this use.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/08/2017 at 8:41 PM, RadoStefanov said:

Been talking to dpa about the 4080...

Vincent Antonini said "stay tuned" today...

 

 

Rado,

 While you have the attention of DPA how about getting them to make some "clear" button hole tubes for the 4060 slim and also a vampire clip for it. Not just the concealer but a vampire type clip like the one for the regular 4060.

 

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Sound Intuition said:

Rado,

 While you have the attention of DPA how about getting them to make some "clear" button hole tubes for the 4060 slim and also a vampire clip for it. Not just the concealer but a vampire type clip like the one for the regular 4060.

 

Bill

I can not ask anybody to make a vampire clip. I don't use them and am against people using them. 

I am sorry. Vampire clips in my humble opinion should never be used on a human being...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
daniel   
2 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

I can not ask anybody to make a vampire clip. I don't use them and am against people using them. 

I am sorry. Vampire clips in my humble opinion should never be used on a human being...

+1 Don't use them on people either but they can be handy for some car interiors and other soft furnishings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

I can not ask anybody to make a vampire clip. I don't use them and am against people using them. 

I am sorry. Vampire clips in my humble opinion should never be used on a human being...

 

Oh... er... ah... you stick them in the clothes, not the person.

 

That tends to make a difference in the level of acceptance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, John Blankenship said:

 

Oh... er... ah... you stick them in the clothes, not the person.

 

That tends to make a difference in the level of acceptance.

Unless the person tries to de-lav her/himself and gets injured...

It is a personal choice of mine and a lot of the talent I worked with. 

2 hours ago, daniel said:

+1 Don't use them on people either but they can be handy for some car interiors and other soft furnishings.

I will probably get murdered if I put one on a car interior!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
daniel   
5 hours ago, RadoStefanov said:

Unless the person tries to de-lav her/himself and gets injured...

It is a personal choice of mine and a lot of the talent I worked with. 

I will probably get murdered if I put one on a car interior!!!

Some headliners can take it, some can't. I guess those in Vegas less so. Still, a quick and inconspicuous way of mounting when you can, especially on materials that don't work well with tape.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, daniel said:

Some headliners can take it, some can't. I guess those in Vegas less so. Still, a quick and inconspicuous way of mounting when you can, especially on materials that don't work well with tape.

I use clips most of the time. Tape is unexeptable  in a car.

But we are drafting away from the subject...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian   
On 11/14/2016 at 3:22 PM, Matthias Richter said:

heads up on a problem I have found with both of my 4098: the bottom of the little tube that goes on top of the capsule is very fragile. Especially when shooting in cold temperature. We did some very small adjustments to the mic hidden in a sun visor. Was enough to create a crack in the bottom part. The tube now sits too loose and would just fall off. Some tiny zip tie helps for now ...

 

 

1641.jpg

I ran into the same problem, except the tube actually broke off while mounting it.  Very Very fragile..  Bad design.  it should be more robust.  I have taped it back on and sounds fine, but sucks to have broken it on day one of use.  If an actor brushed it with their head it would bend in an instant.  FYI.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I spoke to DPA reps recently at the Sound Summit in Seattle.  They told me in order to extend the low frequency response of a 4080, it would have to be much longer than it is, taking away some of the advantage of a 4080.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate C   
4 hours ago, roundbadge said:

I snapped another 4098 tube off.

I'm over it.

 

Sorry to hear that.

 

It's hard when we are using gear that isn't really designed for the rigorous elements we work in.

 

For me it's been a tough 4 days of night shoots based around cars with tight turn arounds. No blocking, shoot the rehearsal, everything done in a rush, all the fun stuff.  My 4098's saved my arse. They were rough handled, bent into all kind of shapes to remain hidden but are still in tact. Honestly I'd hate see what the grill looks like once i take the foamy off.

 

I had intended to do this job with planted booms in the car but it became quickly apparent that was not an option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, roundbadge said:

I snapped another 4098 tube off.

I'm over it.

I agree regarding DPA build quality - from my experience some of their products aren't designed with film production in mind.

We use 4018's for car rigs & have had the MMP-ER active cables fail 3 times now, it's obviously fine planted on a Cello in a studio but on a fast paced film set they need to be more robust - though they do sound fantastic...

 

If anyone from DPA is listening please make a "heavy duty" version of the MMP-ER & ES cables 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
pindrop   
3 hours ago, gareth john said:

I agree regarding DPA build quality - from my experience some of their products aren't designed with film production in mind.

We use 4018's for car rigs & have had the MMP-ER active cables fail 3 times now, it's obviously fine planted on a Cello in a studio but on a fast paced film set they need to be more robust - though they do sound fantastic...

 

If anyone from DPA is listening please make a "heavy duty" version of the MMP-ER & ES cables 

 

Yes that'd be good.

DPA do already make a heavy duty microdot extension choice, which will work with 4098, but there might be some quality control issues with microdot extensions as I bought two (non-heavy duty) ones recently and neither of them worked and had to be changed. (one completely dead, the other intermittent) so check before use, which I didn't unfortunately (trusting they'd be ok) and was caught out.......ooops!

http://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/microdot-extension-cable-2-2-mm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/25/2017 at 0:54 PM, Wandering Ear said:

I spoke to DPA reps recently at the Sound Summit in Seattle.  They told me in order to extend the low frequency response of a 4080, it would have to be much longer than it is, taking away some of the advantage of a 4080.

 

Yet they have the full frequency 4099 series that are basically the same form factor as the 4080, but with reduced sensitivity.  At NAB, a DPA person said that all their miniature mics use the same capsule.

 

I suspect you received a bogus (read: dismissive) answer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

 

Yet they have the full frequency 4099 series that are basically the same form factor as the 4080, but with reduced sensitivity.  At NAB, a DPA person said that all their miniature mics use the same capsule.

 

I suspect you received a bogus (read: dismissive) answer.

The interference tube on the 4099 series is twice the length of the tube on the 4080.  This helps extend the frequency response lower.  They do all use the same capsule, but how that capsule is used changes the response significantly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, roundbadge said:

Ive got some of the brand new Trew audio 4080 TA5 goosenecks on order.

 

That looks like an amazing solution. I am willing to give up a bit of low end in a car. Cars always sound a bit weird, and I doubt it'll be missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, RPSharman said:

 

That looks like an amazing solution. I am willing to give up a bit of low end in a car. Cars always sound a bit weird, and I doubt it'll be missed.

 

Unfortunately, these give up more than a bit of low end.  Just to see what it took, I tried to flatten the curve in post and found it required extreme boosting.

 

If you use these, I look forward to hearing what your opinion is.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

Unfortunately, these give up more than a bit of low end.  Just to see what it took, I tried to flatten the curve in post and found it required extreme boosting

If you use these, I look forward to hearing what your opinion is.

 

Hi John and all,

 

By "giving up low end", I assume you are referring to the DPA-4080 compared to the 4098 or 4099, but that's not the case. I am also assuming that the frequency response is being judged by the graphs available online instead of listening to them. And by trying to "flatten the curve in post" I assume that the curve was the line drawn on the published spec sheet, and not trying to equalized by ear.

 

What must be considered is that flat (ish) frequency curves published for the 4098 and 4099 are at a distance of 8-inches. DPA publishes curves at increasing distances for the 4098 and 4099 to show the effects of proximity effect in reducing low freq. Because of proximity effect, when the distance doubles or triples to distances typical of plant mic situations, the curve looks very much like the published curve of the 4080, showing a low freq reduction typical of directional mics used at a distance. The published curve of the 4080 does not make reference to distance or proximity effect, which is crucial information for making a comparison. Anyway, since the only thing that matters is, ultimately, is how they sound, I decided to test them with my ears -- again -- as I've done many times over the last couple of years, comparing the 4098 to the 4080. Hear are my observations:

 

First, the output level of the 4080 was about 6dB higher than the 4098. (the spec sheet suggests that the difference is 3dB, but with my mics, the 4080 was 6dB hotter.) For dialog, this translates to a lower noise floor because less amplification is needed.

 

Second, contrary to what some are assuming based on the freq graph, the 4080 sounds significantly more full (more low frequency transients in the voice) compared to the 4098. At a distance of 8 inches, the low freqs are similar, but as the distance increases, the 4098, undeniably, has significantly less low end than the 4080. At a distance of 2-feet (typical of car plants), the 4080 has a much more natural (fuller) low frequency response, as noticed in the resonance of a voice.

 

Third, the rounder cardioid pattern of the 4080 is much less susceptible to head turns -- even subtle ones -- than the 4098.

 

Since sound mixers have been getting by with the 4098 in cars and other plant situations pretty well, the above characteristics about the 4080 should only make it an even better choice for most car interior scenes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Glen Trew said:

Hi John and all,

 

By "giving up low end", I assume you are referring to the DPA-4080 compared to the 4098 or 4099, but that's not the case. I am also assuming that the frequency response is being judged by the graphs available online instead of listening to them. And by trying to "flatten the curve in post" I assume that the curve was the line drawn on the published spec sheet, and not trying to equalized by ear.

...

 

 

My observations are based on the sonic results of using my 4080 mics on visors in a car.  My EQ compensation tests were done by ear with recordings from a commercial session with a well known sports personality driving an SUV.

 

I agree on use of the cardioid pattern over a hyper.  That, the sensitivity, and the mounting, are the reasons I've asked DPA to produce a 4080 version with a flatter low end.  The 4080 was designed as a lav where, with this being a directional mic, the proximity effect of close micing results in a flatter low end.  This is why I'd like a version suited for being mounted further from the talent.

 

I've not used the 4098 so I can't make any comparisons other than via DPA's published curves.  However, my 4080 observations are based on my ears in actual use and I have compared the 4080 to my 4099 which has a flatter response at equivalent distances. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×