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Jeff Wexler

DPA 4098 - first impressions

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John, your ears regarding the 4080 are correct. I've edited my post above to be more clear. There are two things that account for the difference between what you are hearing with the standard 4080 lavelier and what you will hear with the UniFlex that uses the 4080 head: 1) The miniature suspension on the stock 4080 has a shroud that not only holds the mic and windscreen in place, it also tailors the frequency response a bit. The microphone is removed from the suspension before going into the UniFlex, so it is no longer a factor. 2) The "snoot" at the end of the UniFlex mount reduces the exposed area of the microscopic ports below the base of the 4080 (just a bit, not fully), recovering low frequency response in the process. While this also slightly reduces directionality, the end result is a fuller sound with a directional pattern ideal for car plant situations.

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Glen,

 

I would love love to hear a demo of the new uniflex 4080 vs 4098 vs CUB or Schoeps in a car setting. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. Maybe there is a possibility of a blog post on trew audio?

 

I really like the idea of something more forgiving than the 4098 with head turns and placement. And as everyone else has stated the 4098 really only shines when placed close to talent and pointed well on axis. That is my experience. It has worked for me in instances but definitely has its limits. 

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Here's the thing. Sometimes a CUB sounds great (rarely, in my opinion). Sometimes a lav on the actor is the only way to go. I sometimes use my DPA 4011C in the center below, or an MKH50. Lavs are almost always in the visors. Every car sounds different. I bet these new Trew things are awesome a lot of the time. I didn't like the omni goose at all, but it was "fine". I expect the uniflex 4080 will be superior. But any type of shoot-out comparison really doesn't mean much. I am excited by this product, and if I have some heavy driving stuff coming up, I will likely buy 2.

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The audio quality is not the main thing that concerns or excites me about the new 4080 gooseneck. I already have two 4098's and I think they are great mics that have far exceeded my expectations. For me the desire to add some 4080 gooseneck's is do to the smaller tube and what looks like a more mouldable gooseneck. The more flexibility for mounting the better. That and with car stuff I find you often need more then one plant mic per character, especially if you have some in the back and front seat. Even with sim travel multi cam shoots will find a why to bone us and we need to be quickly adaptable.

 

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Pictured here is the production version of the UniFlex with DPA-4080 and MicroDot connectors. We had to go with the same diameter gooseneck as the 4098 to accept the MicroDot connector. However, the UniFlex tube is more flexible than the 4098, and holds it's position well. Regarding the MicroDot connector, I've gained appreciation for them. Although they are tiny, when assembled properly, they are very robust. Compared to a lavaliere, they are even more robust when inside the gooseneck, because there is no strain on the cable. The only drawback is the added cost of the required adaptor for use with different transmitter types (adapting to TA-5 or Lemo-3, typically). For TA-5 only users, a TA-5 version is available.

UniFlex DUAL CROP.jpg

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I'm traveling with the first run of 10 pieces with me for the Trew Audio events this weekend in Los Angels (Saturday) and Atlanta (Sunday). 30 more are scheduled to be available next week, and continually thereafter. 

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I just did a bunch of overhead/visor and under talent car tests with the 4061,4098 and 4080.

I was surprised.the 4080 sounds pretty mid forward and very present around 1-4khz ,very very little low end under 120hz.it definitely affects voice range.

the cardiod pattern is nice but sonically sounded a bit hard compared to the 4060/4098.

mind you not unusable but to my ears the least favorite.

I still like the 4061's for reasonably close visor mics.w/ an 80hz hpf, sounds very natural.large suv's/trucks or ambient vehicles are a little more challenging reach wise.

these days we almost always wire talent w/ 4061's or 4071's as well .[whispers and last second open windows]

the 4098 [higher self noise/lower output]is still useful when you need a bit more reach and less extreme head turn stuff...or from below.still a bit too directional for head turns imo.placement crucial.

I've seen the trew 4080 gooseneck version in person,my problem is the head assembly[not the actual gooseneck] is still way to long to hide/stash properly up in visors.its about as long as the 4098..over 2".

so the 4080 demo goes back and my quest continues for the ultimate compact/easy to hide,fast  and robust sounding car rig.

Ive gotta try the 4011 cardiod cap and active microdot cable to lectro next.

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9 hours ago, roundbadge said:

...so the 4080 demo goes back and my quest continues for the ultimate compact/easy to hide,fast  and robust sounding car rig.

...

Which takes us back to my request of DPA for a 4080 version with no low frequency roll-off.  If enough of us ask for it, then it's more likely to happen.

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Again...

Keep in mind that part of the 4080 lavaliere's curve is due to the shroud around the lower part of the interference tube. This shroud is part of the lavaliere suspension, and is not part of the UniFlex 4080 assembly.

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Have not. I get that it might sometimes be helpful in car visors, but the straight configuration is easy to use in the visor, and mount below on the console, and on the steering column, and seat pocket for the backseat.

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4 hours ago, Glen Trew said:

Again...

Keep in mind that part of the 4080 lavaliere's curve is due to the shroud around the lower part of the interference tube. This shroud is part of the lavaliere suspension, and is not part of the UniFlex 4080 assembly.

 

Gee, Glen, i guess I have to spell it out...

 

My intent is not that it has to be identically designed, but that a cardioid with this size and form form factor with a flatter low end, would be a great addition for car miking.  Stating a desire for a 4080 without the low end rolloff is a shorthand way to communicate that to DPA, rather than asking everyone to specifically state, “this size — this form factor — same or similar mount — full sensitivity — cardioid pickup pattern — and flat response.”

 

Are you claiming that DPA lacks the expertise to design and build such a mic?  If so, i hope they take it as a challenge.  I have no doubt they can do it.

 

Sorry if I wasn’t sufficiently detailed.  When I’ve talked with DPA engineers, they seem to understand the request, now we need enough end users to ask for it in order to establish the need.  

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Maybe it was me who wasn't sufficiently detailed...

 

What I was saying is that the 4080 in lavelier form does not sound exactly like the 4080 in the UniFlex gooseneck, which is more flat. This is because the shroud around the interference tube is not used with the gooseneck.

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How many people use the DPA DAD3056 adaptor from microdot to TA 5 with the 4098 and go directly into a Lectro TRX? Or do most people use the DAD6001 microdot to XLR. It is way easier to use the 4098 directly into the TRX as a car rig. But am I correct in assuming that the Lectro would give a low voltage supply to the 4098 thus increasing the noise floor and the DAD6001 would give 48V. I'm finding the 4098 noisy when used directly into the TRX. These are the specs from DPA,

Power supply (for full performance)
MicroDot: Min. 5 V to max. 50 V through DPA adapter for wireless systems
or 48 V phantom power ±4 V with DAD6001-BC XLR adapter
XLR-3M: 48 V phantom power ±4 V
 
Bill

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On 10/21/2017 at 12:37 PM, Glen Trew said:

Have not. I get that it might sometimes be helpful in car visors, but the straight configuration is easy to use in the visor, and mount below on the console, and on the steering column, and seat pocket for the backseat.

After handling the new gooseneck version I'm thinking its still too long[2 inches?] to hang from a visor and hide well..like the 4098 its a bit long.

Glen is it possible to do a version with a shorter head profile?

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The length of the mic element housing, or "snoot" as we call it, is determined by the amount of gooseneck needed to securely mount the assembly, and the need to take up slack in the cable after the connector is installed. The short answer: It could possibly a 1/4-inch shorter but not more.

 

The goal for the Uniflex is to have a microphone similar to the 4098 but with a cardioid pattern more useful for car plant use. The UniFlex can be mounted above in a visor or just like a 4098, as well as being mounted below in the front seat console area, as well as in the back of the front seat pointing toward the rear passengers.

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On 10/24/2017 at 10:45 AM, Sound Intuition said:

How many people use the DPA DAD3056 adaptor from microdot to TA 5 with the 4098 and go directly into a Lectro TRX? Or do most people use the DAD6001 microdot to XLR. It is way easier to use the 4098 directly into the TRX as a car rig. But am I correct in assuming that the Lectro would give a low voltage supply to the 4098 thus increasing the noise floor and the DAD6001 would give 48V. I'm finding the 4098 noisy when used directly into the TRX. These are the specs from DPA,

Power supply (for full performance)
MicroDot: Min. 5 V to max. 50 V through DPA adapter for wireless systems
or 48 V phantom power ±4 V with DAD6001-BC XLR adapter
XLR-3M: 48 V phantom power ±4 V
 
Bill

Last rig I did I ran cables to a 302 and sent line level to my bag, I'm using 4099s tho I think they're lower sensitivity.

 

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18 minutes ago, Glen Trew said:

The length of the mic element housing, or "snoot" as we call it, is determined by the amount of gooseneck needed to securely mount the assembly, and the need to take up slack in the cable after the connector is installed. The short answer: It could possibly a 1/4-inch shorter but not more.

 

The goal for the Uniflex is to have a microphone similar to the 4098 but with a cardioid pattern more useful for car plant use. The UniFlex can be mounted above in a visor or just like a 4098, as well as being mounted below in the front seat console area, as well as in the back of the front seat pointing toward the rear passengers.

Ok gotcha.

I'll have to audition the gooseneck when I return the 4080 to you guys this week.

thanks! 

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On October 23, 2017 at 4:45 PM, Sound Intuition said:

How many people use the DPA DAD3056 adaptor from microdot to TA 5 with the 4098 and go directly into a Lectro TRX? Or do most people use the DAD6001 microdot to XLR. It is way easier to use the 4098 directly into the TRX as a car rig. But am I correct in assuming that the Lectro would give a low voltage supply to the 4098 thus increasing the noise floor and the DAD6001 would give 48V. I'm finding the 4098 noisy when used directly into the TRX. These are the specs from DPA,

Power supply (for full performance)
MicroDot: Min. 5 V to max. 50 V through DPA adapter for wireless systems
or 48 V phantom power ±4 V with DAD6001-BC XLR adapter
XLR-3M: 48 V phantom power ±4 V
 
Bill

 

The 48v phantom adapter converts 48v phantom to the 5 volts required by the 4098 or other lav mic. It basically simulates a transmitter's input.

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I sent a email to DPA tech support and this is what they sent back.

 

Dear Bill
 
Using DAD3056 and lectrosonic gives you a low voltage supply  , this can sometimes increase the noise.
Try using the DAD6001 with P48 supply. Maybe this will lover the noise floor.

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The Lectrosonics bias voltage is 5V. The DPA6001 bias voltage is 5V.

I'm not sure why he thought it would "maybe" make a difference.

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The lectro supply bias voltage is 4v max I remember DPA saying the 5v DPA lavs  (4060,4061,4071 etc) would work with lectro but at a lower headroom and slightly higher noise floor..Richard

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