Tong0615

AudioLTC Sony FS7

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Hello, Just finished a week of shooting with Sony FS7, the camera man do not want to have the extension module because of size and weight, so we have to go for AudioLTC. 

I was today in the editing room to sync the files, even FCPauxTC or TatancleSync can not read MXF Files.. 

I am very thankful for every tipps, otherwise we have to convert the all MXF files to ProRess, which the camera man do not prefer to.

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So, since they didn't want to be bothered with using time code correctly, and now they're doing post with a system that is not fully compatible with the camera files, they want to know what the sound department can do to fix their incompetence?  Got it.

Their best bet then is probably Plural-Eyes.  ...That, and listening to the sound department BEFORE they shoot next time.

 

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I did few shoot with Fs7 without modular. Sending audio feed and one channel camera mic for pluraleyes sync was my case.

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pro res (and let him feel the pain :-). he did know it was a sync sound project.

 

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Hello, Just finished a week of shooting with Sony FS7, the camera man do not want to have the extension module because of size and weight, so we have to go for AudioLTC. 

I was today in the editing room to sync the files, even FCPauxTC or TatancleSync can not read MXF Files.. 

I am very thankful for every tipps, otherwise we have to convert the all MXF files to ProRess, which the camera man do not prefer to.

Send an Email to the Tentacle guys. Their Sync software isn't 100% ready yet, but they did say that they could adapt it relatively easily to your needs, or, more precisely, how you can get it to worl. Just a word of warning: WhenI was told the above I may not have been listening properly. So please ask carefully, so to speak. Please let us know what they said

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Send an Email to the Tentacle guys. Their Sync software isn't 100% ready yet, but they did say that they could adapt it relatively easily to your needs, or, more precisely, how you can get it to worl. Just a word of warning: WhenI was told the above I may not have been listening properly. So please ask carefully, so to speak. Please let us know what they said

Similar Situation. We tried syncing it in the field and we were having trouble. Then I tried importing all data into tentacle sync software (.xml, .bim, and .mxf) and that seemed to work. I can't get a confirmation on this, but I believe there is a feature in the newest Premiere Pro called "merge clips" that will recognize audio LTC and deal with it correctly. Can anyone confirm?

Also, I couldn't output anything from Tentacle Sync because I only bought the software through their indiegogo campaign. And there is no option for using it without a sync box as a dongle. Womp Womp.

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Hello, Just finished a week of shooting with Sony FS7, the camera man do not want to have the extension module because of size and weight, so we have to go for AudioLTC. 

Tell him to do more exercise! ;-)

I bet he will be using the extension module on his next project.

IMHO, it's not your problem fixing the sync, it's his.

Anyway, I always provide a mono audio camera feed to the main camera, along with proper time code or receive wireless RecRun sync from the cameras TC output. And send the same audio camera feed to the second camera (if used) - for syncing with Plural Eyes. To me it makes more sense providing an audio camera feed instead of LTC time code, because logging can be done without having to sync the separately recorded audio (I mainly work with documentaries) and it can quite easily be synced using Plural Eyes. 

Like already pointed out, if you have provided a camera mono mix, then use Plural Eyes.

 

Good luck

Fred

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I'm working on a project now with 2 FS7s. TOD code with my 633 as master, cameras with Timecode buddy(s) attached. seems to be working fine. The extension module is really pretty small and lightweight and pretty useful for other purposes other than TC connections. One oddball (IMHO) "feature" is that the BNC timecode connector can be either in or out only, via a hardware switch. Are they really saving that much real estate or cost with this as opposed to a 2 BNC in/out setup? Odd.

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I've run into the switchable time code I/O on several cameras these days.

 

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Even the Zoom F8 has two bnc ports. The explanation might be that cameras are very seldom used to have timecode in and at the same time output that same timecode in real time to something else. That would however be more plausible with the Zoom or any other device with timecode we might use in our profession..

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#: 11   Posted (edited)

The FS7 gave me erratic bahavior with the TC extension module attached these last days. At some point, it would indicate the TC was ''ext-synced'' but the TC didn't match my 633 (yes, I tried to re-sync the Mozegear with my 633 and the result was the same non-matching TC on cam. Also tried re-booting the camera and also adjusting level on the Mozegear box). The next day, just for fun, I re-plugged the Mozegear after syncing with my 633 with exactly the same settings as the day before: poof, totally on-sync. Go figure.

The BNC connector on the Sony is way better quality than on the C300s which tend to get the center pin part crushed or spaced apart and cause bad contact (I simply use a small screwdriver and replace them more to center so the contact is ok; I'm about to charge the DOPs for doing that soon sincenone of them has a clue...)

Chris: at least, there is an actual physical switch on the Sony; you don't have to dig into the menus to have TC set to IN like on the C300 ... one more big plus for the Sony.

It was a test bench for my Tentacle unit too; audio TC on a Sony A7s and on the FS7; was a ***breeze*** to use and worked every time. Let's wait for post feedback now...

Edited by Boomboom

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There is sometimes some resistance to doing LTC into FS7s because that requires that they buy or rent the ext. back for the camera, a $2000 part.  I usually try to convince them to go for this not just for being able to have LTC and genlock but also because it allows them to use rental V-Lock batteries.  We've found that the camera chews up the little Sony onboard batteries really fast--sucks for doco shooting, the V-locks work way better.  The camera also balances on the shoulder better with some weight in the back.  

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I am very thankful for every tipps, otherwise we have to convert the all MXF files to ProRess, which the camera man do not prefer to.

Convert them to ProRes. MXF is a very bad bad format for Post, in my opinion. It creates a lot of overhead for the computer to try to decode while performing other tasks, particularly color-correction.

As long as it stays in Log space, your cameraman will still have the full range of color and dynamic range to adjust for final delivery. Thousands of projects are routinely done every day in ProRes 444 Log without any problem. 

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Convert them to ProRes. MXF is a very bad bad format for Post, in my opinion. It creates a lot of overhead for the computer to try to decode while performing other tasks, particularly color-correction.

As long as it stays in Log space, your cameraman will still have the full range of color and dynamic range to adjust for final delivery. Thousands of projects are routinely done every day in ProRes 444 Log without any problem. 

Hi, Marc. Thanks. We did the  same,  transfered all files into ProRess HQ. It works very well with Tatencle sync. 

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The Sony XDCA-FS7 Extension Unit adds: 

  • Enables 12-bit 4K/2K RAW Data Output
  • Built-In 1080p ProRes 422 Encoder
  • Timecode & Genlock I/O
  • Tally Indicator
  • V-Mount Battery Attachment
  • 4-Pin XLR DC Power Input
  • 4-Pin Hirose DC Power

It's pretty much a "must have" for productions that want to be fully professional. 

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Info Update, We have used the software from Tentacle sync, finally, it works, and works well. it even sync the back-up recording from Zaxcom TRXs automatically.. 

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On 7/5/2015 at 6:02 PM, John Blankenship said:

The Sony XDCA-FS7 Extension Unit adds: 

  • Enables 12-bit 4K/2K RAW Data Output
  • Built-In 1080p ProRes 422 Encoder
  • Timecode & Genlock I/O
  • Tally Indicator
  • V-Mount Battery Attachment
  • 4-Pin XLR DC Power Input
  • 4-Pin Hirose DC Power

It's pretty much a "must have" for productions that want to be fully professional. 

This is good to know. My last job was with the FS7. More are coming. I guess I'll have to watch for those who won't show up with the full package, and insist that it's my job to sort their post issues for them. 

Thanks John. 

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I always ask about the XDCA now if I hear the cam is FS7.  There has been a lot of pushback lately, folks not wanting to rent them.  They don't get TC.

p

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Yeah..didn't see it on the back of the FS7. We just slated the whole thing.

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Guess this issue or hurdle should have been sorted before the shoot with post involved!

Would the approach of feeding LTC onto one audio track work as a cheap solution?

 

mike

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I shoot for Vice-HBO and most their FS7s don't have a TC back.  We are asked to use CLOCK mode as timecode reference.  It doesn't seem to drift much even over several days of production.  Producers use an app called Timecode+ to log interview on the fly that is timed to their phone clock, I use that as a reference to set my FS7 CLOCK.  Seem to work pretty well (no hair pulling in post as far as I know...).

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Clock mode just takes time of day and uses it as TC.  It has nothing to do with how stable (or not) the sample clock of the camera is.  If kind of close is ok with this client then rock on.  I work for many people who expect frame-accuracy all the time, which with FS7 requires XDCA, external genlock and TC.

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13 hours ago, telecam said:

I shoot for Vice-HBO and most their FS7s don't have a TC back.  We are asked to use CLOCK mode as timecode reference.

Interesting. So do you work with a sound mixer, or are you OMB? If with a mixer, is audio recorded separately, or hopped to camera? Or just scratch audio sent to and recorded on camera? Or no line at all to mixer's audio and on-camera mic used as guide? Thanks!

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It's a mix. Sometimes solo, sometimes with a sound mixer. We always send two usable channels to the FS7 but sound mixers record ISO tracks as well. Those are sent to audio post in case they are needed. Vice News actually sends every piece in the show through color correction and sound sweetening after editing.

 

The Sony XDCA-FS7 Extension Unit adds: 
  • Enables 12-bit 4K/2K RAW Data Output
  • Built-In 1080p ProRes 422 Encoder
  • Timecode & Genlock I/O
  • Tally Indicator
  • V-Mount Battery Attachment
  • 4-Pin XLR DC Power Input
  • 4-Pin Hirose DC Power
It's pretty much a "must have" for productions that want to be fully professional. 


On the downside, it draws 13W of power (unnecessary unless you need to shoot raw or pro res) and adds quite a bit of bulk to the camera.

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