Need help picking a field recorder

[pdastoor]

I am on a low $650 budget and want to upgrade my current gear. I need it to record sounds for films, documentary etc... The user reviews on BnH are very mixed that its hard to decide. I need something that will provide good sound but very low to little noise as my current gear (Zoom H4N and Tascam Dr-40) doesn't provide the cleanest results.

Here are my options:

1) Tascam DR-70D
2) Tascam DR-60DmkII
3) Tascam DR-680MKII
4) Tascam HD-P2 Portable Stereo CF Recorder

Which of the 4 is a good investment?

[CraigF]

personally I don't think anything on that list is better than what you have
better to save up and get into a used Sound Devices unit

[Glen Deakin]

+1 save and get something that you will be more happy with in the future. 744t are slowly dropping in price. Save and spend a bit more. You will be much happier you did.

[Constantin]

Actually, I think the Tascam HD-P2 is and sounds much better than anything else on that list and certainly than what you use now. And it has timecode. But only two tracks...

[John Blankenship]

Actually, I think the Tascam HD-P2 is and sounds much better than anything else on that list and certainly than what you use now. And it has timecode. But only two tracks...

I agree with the choice.  They're a good unit and you can find excellent prices on them used.  Be aware that it does time code but doesn't have a built in TC generator.

[Christian Spaeth]

Zoom F8

[VASI]

Zoom F8 or Tascam DR-680 MKII.

[JonG]

I think you need to do more homework before running off to the store. You need to identify what options you need, and then do your own research towards real gear, not that prosumer nonsense. And you should be looking at sites like Trew Audio, Location Sound Corps, Pro Sound Services, etc. instead of BnH.

What everyone here is thinking but have been too nice to say is that you should spend the next year and a half reading this site and absorbing everything being said before posting anything, and before spending your money.

[Marc Wielage]

And rent some stuff first before you buy. One weekend spent with actual gear is worth more than a hundred opinions on the net. 

[Abe Dolinger]

Agree with Marc! At least some of our usual suspects will apply your rental costs to the payment on your final choice as well.

[The Immoral Mr Teas]

At least some of our usual suspects will apply your rental costs to the payment on your final choice as well.

But Abe, Jon and Marc, he has a budget of around $650 ... which won't go far on rental for any of the top machines (leaving him with some hands on experience but no mixer/recorder) and its obvious it will be years before he can afford such a thing. Meanwhile, he's probably shooting no/lo budget dramas and corporates on cameras costing about the same and with no synchable abilities. There are several recorders available catering for these first steps, all with pros and cons (which admittedly should be weighed up according to the type of work expected) any of which would be useful if owned both as a potential source of (low budget) income and continued experience through use. I like many started out using (other people's) Nagra recorders and SQN mixers, both astronomically expensive 20+ years ago and even then would have loved to have had my own Teac/Tascam non-TC portable dat ... far more expensive than $650 when they came out and capable of less than even the cheapest of the 4 machines quoted - but nevertheless a 'good investment' if used regularly. As it was I was relatively lucky to work out of studios where I could often borrow equipment before eventually gathering things over the years. Its very true, and worth informing him, that pro dealers will usually act very kindly and guide us through needs budgets and could rent and offset rental against purchase but its probably going to be a few years yet before he can afford a Maxx, 552 or whatever completely professional yet 'entry level' machine he decides is right for him.

Meanwhile pdastoor (sorry, I don't know your name!), I'm now going to agree somewhat with Jon, Marc and Abe were actually saying (without wanting to discourage you). There are machines available - those you list and others including a 'middle ground' of machines such as the Roland R88 which do many people a good service in lower budget corporate etc work. You need to ask yourself if you will need timecode, whether timecode input would do or if generation etc needed, and if you need more than two channels. That will already narrow your choice right down. Other factors are outputs - level options; number; digital or not etc. Mixing capability. At the end of the day there's probably no machine out there that does everything you'll (eventually) want of it (though the Cantar x3 probably comes close). So its up to you to assess what machine does what (on paper) and what you might be expected to do with it. You can always choose a recorder to buy and then hire a more capable unit when needed (as I do with 788t and Cantar).

I bought a Roland R4 Pro second hand for around $500. Four tracks, TC in out jam, AES EBU digi IO. Awkward to use in certain ways: some internal mixing possible but 'not really'. Preamps OK but not great. Investment? I'll get my $500 worth out of it, so yes. And I wanted 'something' to handle 4 tracks on a similar budget to your's when it came up. I chose that at that price for the first three things I stated - 4 tracks, TC, Digi IO - against other things around. So its worth looking second hand ... PD6 perhaps? A second hand SD552 might be considered a bit more of an investment as it may be more resellable: con = TC in only, many pros incl multi digi out ...

And keep an eye out for that new zoom F8. Over your budget - and it does far from everything - but it promises a lot.

Sorry for browning any noses! You know I love you really ...

Jez

 

[John Blankenship]

So if there is an issue of disparity, where does it lie?  With the person who came to a forum for pros, asking about semipro gear, or with the pros who responded?

[VASI]

I can't see where the problem is, John.

He listed some recorders and he get answers. Case closed.

[pindrop]

I recommend the shoulder strap......

Edited June 27, 2015 by pindrop

[IronFilm]

On 6/19/2015 at 7:42 AM, pdastoor said:

I am on a low $650 budget and want to upgrade my current gear. I need it to record sounds for films, documentary etc... The user reviews on BnH are very mixed that its hard to decide. I need something that will provide good sound but very low to little noise as my current gear (Zoom H4N and Tascam Dr-40) doesn't provide the cleanest results.

Here are my options:

1) Tascam DR-70D
2) Tascam DR-60DmkII
3) Tascam DR-680MKII
4) Tascam HD-P2 Portable Stereo CF Recorder

Which of the 4 is a good investment?

I've used the H4n, which is quite infamous for having poor pre-amps.
I've also used the DR-60D mk1 and DR-70D, they're for sure miles better than the H4n (but yup, nothing at all like a Sound Devices. Thus why others here are looking down on them). 

DR-60D mk2 is meant to have improved pre-amps over the DR-60D mk1, and the DR-60D mk2 has I think the same pre-amps as the DR-70D
DR-680 mk2 is meant to be a little better yet again. 

For the price of a Tascam HD-P2 I'd probably suggest looking at a Zoom F8 instead. 

I'd suggest buying a DR-60D mk2 (or DR-70D if you think you'll need the extra channel) and sell off your H4n and DR-40
Put the spare money towards a nice microphone, or put it aside to save up towards one day getting a Zoom F8 or even perhaps a Sound Devices. 

[David Silberberg]

On 6/20/2015 at 0:42 PM, pdastoor said:

I am on a low $650 budget and want to upgrade my current gear. I need it to record sounds for films, documentary etc... The user reviews on BnH are very mixed that its hard to decide. I need something that will provide good sound but very low to little noise as my current gear (Zoom H4N and Tascam Dr-40) doesn't provide the cleanest results.

Here are my options:

1) Tascam DR-70D
2) Tascam DR-60DmkII
3) Tascam DR-680MKII
4) Tascam HD-P2 Portable Stereo CF Recorder

Which of the 4 is a good investment?

 

Here's is an alternate source for reviews of low cost recorders; http://transom.org/topics/tools/

There is a reviewer on Transom.org named Jay Allison who has been reviewing these low cost recorders for several years now. Do a search on the model you're interested in and you'll probably find a review that he's done.

IMHO:

-The DR-70D and the DR-60D designs  are targeted toward the DSLR film-maker crowd, people who are doing one-man-band video production.  I think those designs are probably not good choices for someone who is building a career as a sound mixer.

-Going in a different direction,  have you considered buying a good used mixer? You might find an SD 302 used that you can afford. I've seen Cooper CS104 mixers going for $700 on eBay. With a professional field mixer you can feed your handheld recorders nice clean line level signals and greatly improve your recording specs.  You can also feed cameras. You will also have more input channels and better limiting. You will also benefit from improved monitoring: Stereo, Mono sum, L, R , ch1 pfl, ch2 pfl, ch3 pfl, return, MS.   Good monitoring makes a big difference. 

 

[Christopher Mills]

2 hours ago, David Silberberg said:

 

Here's is an alternate source for reviews of low cost recorders; http://transom.org/topics/tools/

There is a reviewer on Transom.org named Jay Allison who has been reviewing these low cost recorders for several years now. Do a search on the model you're interested in and you'll probably find a review that he's done.

IMHO:

-The DR-70D and the DR-60D designs  are targeted toward the DSLR film-maker crowd, people who are doing one-man-band video production.  I think those designs are probably not good choices for someone who is building a career as a sound mixer.

-Going in a different direction,  have you considered buying a good used mixer? You might find an SD 302 used that you can afford. I've seen Cooper CS104 mixers going for $700 on eBay. With a professional field mixer you can feed your handheld recorders nice clean line level signals and greatly improve your recording specs.  You can also feed cameras. You will also have more input channels and better limiting. You will also benefit from improved monitoring: Stereo, Mono sum, L, R , ch1 pfl, ch2 pfl, ch3 pfl, return, MS.   Good monitoring makes a big difference. 

 

+1... and then get a VERY basic 2 track, such as tascam dr5, and a cable.. feed it from one of the many outputs on your Cooper or SD (or Wendt x4/PSC M4+...  ANd feed the camera with another  set of outputs..

I also see many Filmtech 4 channel mixers on Ebay , starting at $95!!! I don't know these machines as well, but they were considered pro enough to be in Glen Trew's old list of viable 4 ch mixers.

 

They also have DIrect Outs, for ISO tracks!!! they will greatly improve a lower end recorder..

I have owned a Roland R4 Pro, and I think your budget would be well served by a good working LSP4 and either a zoom f8 or R4Pro.... that would get you 4 isos, or 4 isos and a mix (Zoom), run through decent preamps.. and a flavor or TC...

Or.. SD 302 and 2 track transcription recorder.. if you can raise 650, I bet you can do something to get another $300... PA for a weekend?.

Or, partner with someone, but a used 552, and split the kit rental to pay yourselves back

These will all give good results, and let you build a better kit and better clientele.

[Nick Flowers]

12 hours ago, Christopher Mills said:

Text deleted...

I also see many Filmtech 4 channel mixers on Ebay , starting at $95!!! I don't know these machines as well, but they were considered pro enough to be in Glen Trew's old list of viable 4 ch mixers.

 

They also have DIrect Outs, for ISO tracks!!! they will greatly improve a lower end recorder..

...text deleted.

 

I've got a Filmtech LSP4 in a cupboard, unused for years. Not because it is technically wanting but because it is rather heavy! Martyn Richards made them in Cardiff and he took the initial step of asking recordists what they wanted in a mixer. He met the requests and the LSP4 was wonderful. Sockets for cascading them, various levels of ins and outs (balanced and unbalanced), ISO outs, and a remote level control box for velcro-ing onto your boom pole so you could hold the pole with both hands and still control the level. Also a plug in four track slider box. Superb specs! It is only because I grew old and feeble that I had to put it aside and get a lightweight SQN.